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    Home Unlabelled Age of Empires II After finishing all the official campaigns on hard difficulty I've decided to put them on the tierlist. Turns out most of them are really good!

    Age of Empires II After finishing all the official campaigns on hard difficulty I've decided to put them on the tierlist. Turns out most of them are really good!

    August 31, 2021

    Age of Empires II After finishing all the official campaigns on hard difficulty I've decided to put them on the tierlist. Turns out most of them are really good!

    After finishing all the official campaigns on hard difficulty I've decided to put them on the tierlist. Turns out most of them are really good!

    Posted: 31 Aug 2021 03:27 AM PDT

    Works everytime 24

    Posted: 31 Aug 2021 05:37 AM PDT

    Messed up map gen against Celts. One woodline and all resources forward on hills

    Posted: 31 Aug 2021 05:26 AM PDT

    “Cavalry Archers”: Armor classes and Techs affecting them. How and why?

    Posted: 31 Aug 2021 06:38 AM PDT

    Hi all! I'm sure you're asking: "Why did this guy quote Cavalry Archers in the title?" Because we're not going to talk about Cavalry Archers themselves, but about units that resemble them (mounted and ranged unit) but are somehow not considered "Cavalry Archers" entirely. These are Conquistadors, Arambai, Mamelukes, and Genitours. We'll see how changes in DE affected them and how they would fare if certain techs affected them.

    Conquistadors

    Conqs deal pierce armor and are affected by Stable (Bloodlines and Husbandry) and Blacksmith (Archer armor only) techs. They are not affected by Thumb Ring, Fletching/Bodkin/Bracer, Ballistics or Chemistry. Conqs have a strong base power, and they are very easy to upgrade, only needing 5 techs + the Elite upgrade for a Full Upgrade.

    Conqs in the beginning had these armor classes (main counters are in brackets): Cavalry (Pikes, Camels, Mamelukes, Genoese xbows, Kamayuk, Flem. Militia); Unique unit (Samurai); Archer (Skirmisher, Genitour, Huskarl). Later the Gunpowder unit armor was added (Condottiero, Winged Hussar).

    With the introduction of DE, Conqs were "nerfed" by adding them the "Cavalry Archer armor class". What does it mean? That there are some units that deal an extra damage against them. Those are: Camel Archers (+4, +6 for Elite), Elite Genitours (+2) and Elite Skirmishers (+2, +3 for Imperial). The consequences of this are: That Berbers stomp Conqs with their UUs, and that Elite Skirms now are harder counters to them (see Table).

    Table legend: First number indicates the damage per shot, and number in brackets indicates number of shots to kill.

    ​

    https://preview.redd.it/y67d8lc21pk71.png?width=759&format=png&auto=webp&s=129ddcde82d7a0e4497f2320a24374c1e113649e

    It can be seen why Berbers are counter to Spanish (3rd biggest win rate for Berbers and worst win rate for Spanish), since the other strong option for Spanish (Paladins) is also countered by cheap Camels. Regarding Skirmishers, they even outrange Conqs, whose only option is to outrun them, which is of no use when you're pushing. Before getting to the Elite Skirm upgrade + Bodkin, Conqs have a crazy power. They are undoubtedly the best early Castle Age Unique unit. But, after the Elite Skirm upgrade, any civ has the tool to counter Conqs (sorry Turks, you still have Jannies, HC and CAs for that). Even generic units outrange them by far, and by the time Conqs can shoot, they'd have taken damage.That's why it is often said that Conqs fall off in Imperial Age.

    Arambai

    Arambai deal pierce armor and are affected by Stable (Bloodlines and Husbandry), Blacksmith (Archer armor only) techs, and Ballistics. They are not affected by Thumb Ring, Fletching/Bodkin/Bracer, Parthian Tactics or Chemistry. They are also very easy to upgrade, only needing 5 techs + the Elite upgrade for a Full Upgrade.

    Arambai's armor classes are: Cavalry, Unique unit, Archer and Cavalry Archer. So everything that was said about Conquistadors, also affects them. The main difference is that they also get another armor that boosts attacks from anti-archers (Skirms, Genitours, Huskarls) still more. While Conquistadors held well standard range attack (like that of Xbows/Arbs and Cav Archers), Arambai only have 2 (3 for elite) pierce armor, thus making them shredded by ranged units. Having only 5 range doesn't help either. But, as Conqs, they are one of the best raiders in AoE2.

    Ok, so Arambai have the Cavalry Archer armor and are not affected by Parthian Tactics. How would it affect their performance in Imperial Age? See the table. We'll consider only ranged units, since the +1 melee armor would indeed affect melee fights, but not as much as +2 pierce armor against range:

    ​

    https://preview.redd.it/px7i57h12pk71.png?width=545&format=png&auto=webp&s=1489d215e6c8aa242ed2861c2f7714e9729a97a2

    The units that would see mostly affected their damage to Arambai are foot archers without bonus damage against them (Arbs, Rattan, Longbows, Plumes, Slingers) and some mounted units, like HCA, Mangudai, Eleph archer and Ballistas. If Parthian Tactics affected Arambai, they would also resist more defensive building shots, and that could improve very much their raiding and building razing with Manipur Cavalry researched.

    Mamelukes

    Mamelukes deal melee armor and are affected by Stable (Bloodlines and Husbandry), Blacksmith (Forging/Iron Casting/Blast Furnace + Cavalry armors) techs, and the Saracen UT Zealotry, which grants them 20HP.

    Unlike Conqs and Arambai, they don't get the Cavalry Archer armor. They get Camel, Unique unit, Archer and Mameluke (this makes Pikes and Camels deal additional damage to them) armors. It is (and forgive me Devs) a bit strange, since Mamelukes are not affected by anything that boosts ranged units, but they get the penalty of having the Archer armor class. This benefits Archer counters, like Skirms, Genitours and Huskarls, who are a problem for Mamelukes, since they are outranged by the first two, and have to hit-and-run not to get thrashed by Goth UUs. This strange issue could be directly solved by giving Skirms/Genitours/Huskarls a bonus attack against Mameluke armor class, and removing the Archer class to Mamelukes.

    Others could argue for Mamelukes having the Cavalry Archer armor class. This would undoubtedly benefit Camel Archers instead of Huskarls. But, if we open that door, we could also think that Mamelukes should be affected by Parthian Tactics. Next table shows the damage output of generic ranged units and counter units, if Mamelukes had different combinations of both Archer/Cav Archer armors and Parthian Tactics if considered Cav Archers:

    ​

    https://preview.redd.it/ig7swrkb2pk71.png?width=729&format=png&auto=webp&s=49ca36a76a31e5870d7b73cc1840a73afc98825b

    Here we see the master move of Devs with Mamelukes. Mamelukes without both armor classes are close to uncounterable (resist arrows and outrun or counter most melee units). If we give them only Cav Archer armor, the damage output of anti-archers increases, but the one who benefits more is the Camel Archer, and giving them Parthian Tactics leaves again only Camel Archers as the only counter unit. Both armor classes turn anti-archers into a too strong counter. Giving them Parthian Tactics would leave anti-archers in good balance against Mamelukes, but it would, in all cases, leave standard ranged units (arbs and HCAs – and most of UUs) very ineffective against them. Their current state has a very good balance, and, to me, the only question that arises here is if they should get a little decrease in their gold value (just to 80).

    Genitours

    Ok, this is the last one and the most complicated to assess, due to the fact that all Berber allies have access to them. Genitours deal pierce armor and are affected by Stable (Bloodlines and Husbandry), Blacksmith (both attack/range and armor) techs, Ballistics, Chemistry and Thumb Ring.

    They have Cavalry, Cavalry Archer, Archer and Unique unit armor classes. They are regarded as "mounted Skirmishers". But which of the generic and Unique techs and bonuses affect them? Here's a table including all Skirmisher and Cavalry archer affecting features. I will show if they affect Genitours and how would it affect:

    ​

    https://preview.redd.it/utxbpocr2pk71.png?width=676&format=png&auto=webp&s=01b466e320f5bb72daf4b1222b664ba26688eca5

    We can see that there are both techs/bonuses that affect Cav Archers and Skirmishers but do not affect Genitours. Parthian Tactics would give a 10 pierce armor (the same as Elite Huskarl) to civs featuring FU Cav Archers, like Saracens, Japs, Indians, Turks, Magyars and Tatars. The last 3 also have UTs that affect Cav Archers, but the Magyar one doesn't apply to Genitours (They would become crazy units with 75HP, 9 at, 8 range and 4/10 armor). I think that the crazy armor Genitours would get is the main reason why Parthian Tactics does not affect Genitours.

    The same could be said about Recurve Bow, which would be a great boost to a civ that already has the best trash unit in the game (when gold runs out, Huszar + Genitour would be broken). Not sure though, why Steppe Husbandry doesn't affect them. Lithuanian Genitours would also win a lot if Skirmisher features affected Genitours. As for Byzantine discount, there would be no problem, seeing that they lack Bloodlines and Elite Genitours would only have 55HP. They would support well Cataphracts against Archers/Cav Archers!

    So that's all! I hope I didn't make big mistakes and that you liked this 4 unit analysis. Tell me any thoughts you had while reading the thread! Have a nice day!

    submitted by /u/Azot-Spike
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    Dave raps and wrecks

    Posted: 30 Aug 2021 08:48 PM PDT

    Hey let's pit you against a guy with ONE THOUSAND elo more than you and to balance it out we gave him a team mate with 100 less rating. Balancing is so good that the almost 3k player xbows beat my skirms

    Posted: 31 Aug 2021 04:59 AM PDT

    The Siege of Vilnius: keeping the first castle alive is possible!

    Posted: 30 Aug 2021 09:41 PM PDT

    What's the highest score comeback you've done? I just came back from being down from 3500 to 7000

    Posted: 31 Aug 2021 01:47 AM PDT

    I'm not bragging since the level I'm at, I hover around the 900-1000 ELO mark, but I'm a firm believer in not paying attention to the score. Sure, sometimes you see when opponent is aging up and whatnot, but you know what I'm referring to. Although this score difference is where I probably up until now would have said "yea.. no chance".

    Was clowning on Arena as Goths against Liths. Long story short his castle takes down my castle and proceeds to drop about 4 castles in my face. I pull back a bit and make a new wall with siege workshops (wanted him to think I will go with rams) and barracks.

    This is where the score was 7000 for him and 3500 for me. So from there I figured as long as I can get to trebs first, he wont reach them because I'll have halbs. But he hit imp 1 minute before me... anyways for some reason he either didn't produce trebs right away or he was keeping them in his castles. By the time he pulled out a treb to counter mine, I send a pack of suicide huskarls to take it out.

    The rest is history. I actually ended up with 4 relics, but he prioritized a double castle drop and not going after relics, definitely caught me off guard. As I said, yes, we are not pro level and I can easily identify what he/she could have done to finish me off. But everyone is a general after the battle...

    In any case, especially for noobs, score is not everything!!!

    Link for match

    https://aoe.ms/replay/?gameId=114482259&profileId=967236

    submitted by /u/Wise_Frame
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    AOE2 random attack bonuses in a nutshell

    Posted: 30 Aug 2021 10:54 PM PDT

    How do you play Burmese?

    Posted: 31 Aug 2021 06:06 AM PDT

    The Burmese have three bonuses:

    - Lumbercamp upgrades free

    - Infantry +1 attack per age

    - Monastery upgrades 50% cheaper

    What I don't understand is that they have good food units, (infantry, knights and elephants) yet no bonus to support that. They get a wood bonus instead. Are they meant to be played with monks, pike and siege? I feel like their bonuses don't synergise too well compared to a civ such as Franks (two food bonuses for food army). They had a clear game plan when Arambai were incredibly strong and back then the wood bonus made sense. Now their bonuses seem all over the place. Am I missing something?

    How do you play them effectively on open 1v1 maps? I can see them going cav into elephants in team games but apart from that, what is their purpose?

    submitted by /u/MantisAoE
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    Was watching last night's "Only Connect" when this came up

    Posted: 31 Aug 2021 07:56 AM PDT

    How to make petards invisible! 1111

    Posted: 30 Aug 2021 03:50 PM PDT

    Just a reminder that the Rise of the Rajas theme is still amazing

    Posted: 30 Aug 2021 02:20 PM PDT

    Cumans Flank Arabia TG

    Posted: 30 Aug 2021 04:31 PM PDT

    Recently, I randomed into cumans flank on Arabia and i wondered if anyone has worked out a maa archer build including a second tc by now.

    I absolutely steamrolled with it, 75 wood ranges are no joke. Maa did some damage, killed a vil, and forced a ton of idle time. Then i was like, might as well add a second tc. Had a decent archer mass to defend and hit castle at 25 minutes (which is late, don't get me wrong), but when i hit castle i had 3 ranges, 30 archers and could afford ballistics, thumbring, bowsaw and a forward castle right away. Followed it up with capped ram a few minutes later.

    Seemed strong. I think with a refined build you could even push the timing down to 23 minutes which is not uncommon with maa archer builds with 2 ranges.

    I'd be happy if you had some thoughts or build that you'd be willing to share.

    submitted by /u/mosith
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    Early game question

    Posted: 31 Aug 2021 07:26 AM PDT

    Whenever I watch Hera I always see him decide his builds (or at least I see it commonly when he's just chill playing) when he's sending vils to berries. I always felt like I had to decide my build before the game because I have to know whether to send 3 or 4 to wood.

    I watched Viper do the same thing, and he just sent 4 to wood and still decided scouts.

    My question is, is 4 vils to wood on a scout build competitive, like could I wait to decide until I send to berries? Or is it just because they are that good that they can get away with it?

    submitted by /u/SkinnyDick696969
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    Bug in Polish 3rd campaign

    Posted: 30 Aug 2021 03:34 PM PDT

    In the third campaign, in that one where you choose your cities. I started with Vilnius and I lost it. When I destroyed the castle to reconquer it, it crated the new of the enemy color and not mine and the city did not switch to my side. All other cities worked as expected. Did you also experience it?

    submitted by /u/Kobtul
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    Alive map design

    Posted: 31 Aug 2021 02:55 AM PDT

    I started to design a map in AOE2 DE and I decided to make it more alive by adding some units that are training using the triggers.

    The thing is I don't know any good way to do it, maybe people use invisible units, maybe they change the range I don't know anyone has any piece of advice

    submitted by /u/Zer0-Prince-47
    [link] [comments]

    Mangonels can be deadly....(to yourself)

    Posted: 30 Aug 2021 03:43 PM PDT

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1134392559

    ​

    You can skip to 2.46 for the actual moment.

    submitted by /u/amuldesai
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    How do you make the AI start with a neutral diplomatic stance? (AOE2:DE)

    Posted: 30 Aug 2021 03:13 PM PDT

    [Spoiler] Jadwiga 2 - potential bug

    Posted: 30 Aug 2021 02:25 PM PDT

    Not sure if this is a bug or if I missed something, but the mission won't end for me.

    Halych is completely defeated (took out every single building and unit and got the 'defeated' message and the civ is crossed out). I have a castle on all three hills.

    Did I miss something? I double checked the objectives and the notes and there doesn't seem to be anything else to do. Any help would be appreciated!

    submitted by /u/TheTeapotTribe
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