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    Home Unlabelled Age of Empires II Civilization Match-up Discussion Round 10 Week 11: Celts vs Turks

    Age of Empires II Civilization Match-up Discussion Round 10 Week 11: Celts vs Turks

    November 19, 2020

    Age of Empires II Civilization Match-up Discussion Round 10 Week 11: Celts vs Turks

    Civilization Match-up Discussion Round 10 Week 11: Celts vs Turks

    Posted: 17 Nov 2020 09:33 PM PST

    Oh boy a discussion right after a big patch!

    ​

    Hello and welcome back for another Age of Empires 2 civilization match up discussion! This is a series where we discuss the various advantages, disadvantages, and quirks found within the numerous match ups of the game. The goal is to collectively gain a deeper understanding of how two civilizations interact with each other in a variety of different settings. Feel free to ask questions, pose strategies, or provide insight on how the two civilizations in question interact with each other on any map type and game mode. This is not limited to 1v1 either. Feel free to discuss how the civilizations compare in team games as well! So long as you are talking about how the two civilizations interact, anything is fair game! Last week we discussed the Ethiopians vs Indians, and next up is the Celts vs Turks!

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    Celts: Infantry and Siege civilization

    • Infantry move +15% faster starting in Feudal Age
    • Lumberjacks work +15% faster
    • Siege Weapons Fire +25% faster
    • Sheep will always be in your control so long as you are in LoS
    • TEAM BONUS: Siege Workshops work +20% faster
    • Unique Unit: Woad Raider (Fast, powerful infantry)
    • Castle Age Unique Tech: Stronghold (Castles and Towers fire +25% faster)
    • Imperial Age Unique Tech: Furor Celtica (Siege Workshop units +40% hp)

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    Turks: Gunpowder civilization

    • Gunpowder units +25% hp; researching gunpowder techs costs -50%; Chemistry free
    • Gold Miners work +20% faster
    • Scout-line has +0/+1 armor
    • Light Cavalry and Hussar upgrades free
    • TEAM BONUS: Gunpowder units created +25% faster
    • Unique Unit: Janissary (Powerful, general-purpose hand cannon)
    • Castle Age Unique Tech: Sipahi (Cavalry Archers +20 hp)
    • Imperial Age Unique Tech: Artillery (Bombard Towers, Bombard Cannons, and Cannon Galleons get +2 range)

    ​

    Below are some match up-specific talking points to get you all started. These are just to give people ideas, you do not need to address them specifically if you do not want to!

    • Alrighty, we have two civs that were changed by the patch. The Celt drush is now more or less generic, and Turk scouts now are much tankier. For this match up on open land maps however, who do you favor? Turks are historically not the greatest civ in these settings, but Celts also possess something of a weakness to strong gunpowder units like Turks have.
    • On closed maps, both of these civs are quite popular. Celts have an excellent boom into Halb/Woad Raider + Siege, and Turks have... like all their late game stuff. Can Celts close the gap to reach the Turkish army, or will they be mowed down by Janissaries?
    • Both of these civs are somewhat awkward in team games. Neither fills the traditional Archer or Cavalry role very well. Turks lack Arbalest, but do have strong cav archers, gunpowder, and solid cavalry. Celts meanwhile have a sick economy and siege line, but critically lack both good cavalry or good archers. How do you fit these civs into your team comp?

    Thanks as always for participating! Next week we will continue our discussions with the Saracens vs Vikings. Hope to see you there! :)

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    Previous discussions: Part 1 Part 2 Part 3

    submitted by /u/OrnLu528
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    "și am luat asta personal"

    Posted: 18 Nov 2020 07:42 PM PST

    Castle age be like 11

    Posted: 19 Nov 2020 07:02 AM PST

    [UI] What we wanted vs what we got

    Posted: 18 Nov 2020 10:22 AM PST

    Arena meme strat - is this a thing?

    Posted: 19 Nov 2020 05:36 AM PST

    Last couple games as goths, I scouted their wall for weaknesses. Went castle and built 2 petards. Attacked one side of their walled base with my scout to sound their horn and draw their attention and blew a hole in their wall on the other side so they probably didn't immediately notice. Ran in with knights and decimated their eco. This allowed me to out eco them and they never caught up. I'm 900 so I know I suck but is this strat a thing?

    submitted by /u/LyricalPig
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    What's your favourite civ to play and why?

    Posted: 19 Nov 2020 07:04 AM PST

    Sorry for the stupid question but I don't know if I've ever seen it asked.

    Me, I like Magyars, I find the lack of eco bonuses don't really matter at the level I play (which is not a high level, let's be clear...) and there's a lot of flexibility in army composition. I am very fond of a scout rush and it's hard to beat a pretty strong, mobile unique unit which only costs food. Piling hundreds of Elite Magyar Huszars in during post-Imperial in a 1v1 when all the gold is gone, that's the good stuff.

    What's yours?

    submitted by /u/Snikhop
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    What are your ideas to make Italians more viable on open land maps?

    Posted: 19 Nov 2020 06:10 AM PST

    The reduced training time for Genoese Xbowmen was a very good choice from the devs imo, makes them more in line with other foot archer UUs. However, I don't think it's enough to make Italians competitive on 1v1 Arabia.

    ​

    It would be very cool to give them a new original bonus, preferably one that is only suited for land gameplay, since they are a very dominant water civ already. Something similar to the new Portuguese bonus would be great.

    With my limited imagination, here are two ideas I came up with:

    Option 1 : Cheaper military buildings

    Option 2 : Military buildings are built very fast (like five times faster or something)

    ​

    What I like about these ideas: they play well into the idea that Italians use mercenaries for their military so they can create army fast without too much eco.

    Option 1 would go well with all current Italian bonuses since they are all cost reductions (cheaper age advances, gunpowder units, fishing ships, dock techs).

    Option 2 might feel weird but I find it fun. It's clearly not game-breaking but it allows you to transition faster and to waste less villager time on building.

    ​

    I think those ideas are fine, but I would love to read yours. One that I've seen suggested often is something around Ballistics (maybe making it instant to research, or reduce its cost?).

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    TL;DR: What would be your original buff to Italians on 1v1 land maps?

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    (If you think Italians are already fine for 1v1 Ara, please tell me how, they're a worse archer civ than VIkings or Malay which are not classified as archer civs. Cheaper HCs are almost useless because you will always go either arbalests or genoese xbows. The condottiero power spike happens in imp where most games are already over, and it's really not that scary. Cheaper age-ups are good but won't carry the civ alone)

    submitted by /u/Inglorii
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    as promised, new UI - mod available under ''Realistic images''

    Posted: 18 Nov 2020 12:21 PM PST

    Why they give Turks feudal scout +1 pierce armour?

    Posted: 19 Nov 2020 05:45 AM PST

    Isn't it an over buff? I mean, +1 pierce armour for light cav and hussar would be good enough, just like how Mongols have +30HP for light cav and hussar, but not scouts. It also doesn't synergise with their gold mining bonus at all, and it is not like archer is a major problem for them in feudal age.

    I still want to throw out my long standing idea for Turk: Just replace the stone cost of Imp tech Artillery, or at least reduce it cost.

    submitted by /u/html_lmth
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    Noob-Question about infantry (Swordline)

    Posted: 19 Nov 2020 05:38 AM PST

    So, in general there's like a rock paper scissors with units. Like if we take trash units : Skirms kill halbs, halbs kill light cav, light cav kills skirms.

    However for the Goldunits it feels like Archers beat swords, Knights beat swords, Archers and Knights go toe to toe depending on the situation (usually advantage for knights if it would be straight up fight with no mikro and things to hide behind). Is there a reason sword-infantry doesn't have a damage-boost against cav?

    Because it feels so counterintuitive to me that they are slower and can't even trade that costeffectively against knights. Now i understand that they are the king of Trash-slaying as there's no trash unit with bonus attacks towards the militialine. But wouldn't the game be in a more balanced state, if (sword-)infantry got a damage bosst against knights. Not even to the point where they straight up counter them like halbs, but to the point where they costeffectively trade, but come with the downside of having much lower mobility (allowing the cav to just run away) and a terrible matchup vs archers?

    submitted by /u/BeTheBeee
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    Performance is garbage with new patch?

    Posted: 18 Nov 2020 02:50 PM PST

    Anybody else having this? Occasional lag spikes and also feels less smooth. Didn't have that before.

    submitted by /u/Forsaken_Funny
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    New BR mode issue: Sometimes your units die at the start of the game due to corruption.

    Posted: 19 Nov 2020 04:37 AM PST

    First off: Congrats to the team! I love this new mode, very well done! Its short, fast-paced and fun. Also love how you implemented corruption thingy.

    There is an issue with it though. Sometimes one of your heros start just at the corner at the start of the game and corruption does massive damage to them.

    I almost lost one of mine, though it was conquistador like hero, so i could fight from range with AI but i would be in an extremely disadvantaged situation if i had to battle with another player that early.

    submitted by /u/moragdong
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    Why is the Italian Condottiero shown in the civ overview but not the Vietnamese Imperial Skirmisher? (Both are team bonuses)

    Posted: 18 Nov 2020 09:11 AM PST

    Scenario Editor AI

    Posted: 19 Nov 2020 05:39 AM PST

    Hi all,

    I've been struggling with the AI settings in the scenario editor. I have it's 'personality' set to standard and the player 2 set to AI but it just doesn't feel like the standard DE AI. I've played standard games where I've been drushed and the scenario editor AI seems to just concentrate on going Imp before considering making units. I want to access the standard DE AI so that the scenario can be replayed with a potentially different AI tactic chosen. Am I missing something?

    submitted by /u/youg_3
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    AOE Civ Megasheet Update #5

    Posted: 19 Nov 2020 07:38 AM PST

    Hey people,

    Another quick heads up for those who use/used my AOE Civ Megasheet. I've updated the text on the sheet to match the most recent patch notes. For those who haven't seen/used it, try it out! There's always a couple people in the shared file so it might work for you as well =)

    Since my last post I also added radar charts as suggested by u/LadiesAndMentlegen. They have been revised as of today and now include the average civ scores per category. There's also 2 similar Civ sheets in the document, the first sheet is a clean Civ Table with filters, the Civ Overview sheet is a more colourful version.

    I've not yet adjusted any scores based on the patch, but I will be working on that this week. If you want to advocate for a change, feel free to comment or message me. It's always fun to discuss how civs can be compared to eachother.

    Check out the Original Post for more info about how I made this. Any feedback is appreciated, I'm mostly looking for ways to improve consistency in the wording of the descriptions, and ways to present the data more elegantly.

    FAQ:

    How did you decide on the Civ ratings? Mostly Spirit of the Law's Youtube videos, and a bit of feedback. These ratings will always be a hotly contested matter and are mostly intended to give a basic overview for new players, but feel free to make your case for a change.

    Why are some numbers underlined? These civs have fully upgraded units in that category - sort of. Specific criteria are found in the Legend tab of the sheet.

    What are Unique and Limited units? I tried to show multiple unique units and civs who have access to special unit types like camels, eagles and elephants. It's currently a bit messy though, so feel free to help with a more clear solution without taking up too much space

    Why does *Good Civ X* have such a low average score? In practise high average scores mean great versatility. Some great civs like Huns and Britons score low on that because they are highly specialized. Take those ratings with a grain of salt. Also don't worry, Vietnamese are still trash.

    Also check out my very basic Build Order Flowchart

    submitted by /u/KrMees
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    Ranked empire wars

    Posted: 19 Nov 2020 07:28 AM PST

    Not a rant, but wish there was competitive empire wars. The games i have found have been pretty unbalanced. I wish they would add this game mode to the ranked pool similar to standard and death match modes

    submitted by /u/itsSRL
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    Hey, about 18 years ago, there was a map where you spawned as a random civ with a teammate, you had nothing but castles and the castles autospawned your special unit.. you had to work together to beat all the other teams.. it was VERY popular.. What happened to this map?

    Posted: 18 Nov 2020 01:39 PM PST

    Hello!

    This map used to be very common custom game when AOE2 first appeared, especially during the Mayan expansion. You spawned with a teammate and everyone had to choose random civ. Your teammate wasn't necessarily next to you. You had to target CIV's that you countered while defending your base.

    You had to strategize with them on how best to take out the stronger civs and sometimes it was just game over or sometimes you had to work with another team to take out like a power combo of elephants/gunmen.

    It was really fun, I think it would be popular again and I would love to play it.

    submitted by /u/BulkyDig9881
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    Mangonel/onager firing issue

    Posted: 18 Nov 2020 09:33 PM PST

    Anyone who's used mangonels/onagers a lot will be familiar with how, when you target them manually, they'll sometimes just stare at the target and not fire despite clearly having reloaded. They won't respond to repeated right clicks on enemy units or attack ground commands.

    Someone pointed this out to me just now and it piqued my curiosity. Wondering what causes it. Is it a bug?

    My first thought was that it's because of the frame delay. You see this affecting bombard cannons a lot: if you order them to attack but then interrupt them before their animation is finished, they'll have to reload again despite not firing a projectile. However, this shouldn't affect the mangonel line in theory because it has 0 frame delay.

    submitted by /u/statusquorespecter
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    The Anniversary patch seems to have fixed the connection issues! No more VPN, no more 10%+ games disconnected, and no more major frustration! For some of us, it made the game almost unplayable. Thanks, DE. No, really, thanks devs!! :D

    Posted: 19 Nov 2020 07:05 AM PST

    Poll to discover the Main Menu UI issues.

    Posted: 18 Nov 2020 07:06 PM PST

    Edit: Ill wait for 2 days before I post my thoughts on this. Provided I remember. Just check back on the week-end if you want to analyze it with me.

    Out of Curiosity, since I saw a lot of push back against the new Main menu UI whats the reasoning behind disliking it?

    Personally in a game partly about efficiency it irks me that they made the mainmenu less so.

    View Poll

    submitted by /u/NumberAoe2
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    Quick Play team positions

    Posted: 19 Nov 2020 01:03 AM PST

    There doesn't seem to be a way to pick your team positions, so it's random whether you end up being a pocket or flank. Am I missing something or is this messed up?

    submitted by /u/mcrabb23
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    Bug with campaign progression

    Posted: 19 Nov 2020 06:48 AM PST

    Hello!

    Has anyone experienced a bug recently with the campaigns dont record your advancement. Both with cheats and without if I logout I cant see my progression when I restart the game. I also finished the Saladin campaign and didn't get the achievement for finishing the campaign.

    submitted by /u/Nonor64
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