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    Home Unlabelled Age of Empires II Civilization Match-up Discussion Round 9 Week 7: Berbers vs Saracens

    Age of Empires II Civilization Match-up Discussion Round 9 Week 7: Berbers vs Saracens

    June 17, 2020

    Age of Empires II Civilization Match-up Discussion Round 9 Week 7: Berbers vs Saracens

    Civilization Match-up Discussion Round 9 Week 7: Berbers vs Saracens

    Posted: 16 Jun 2020 08:10 PM PDT

    Battle of the camel + naval civs!

    Hello and welcome back for another Age of Empires 2 civilization match up discussion! This is a series where we discuss the various advantages, disadvantages, and quirks found within the numerous match ups of the game. The goal is to collectively gain a deeper understanding of how two civilizations interact with each other in a variety of different settings. Feel free to ask questions, pose strategies, or provide insight on how the two civilizations in question interact with each other on any map type and game mode. This is not limited to 1v1 either. Feel free to discuss how the civilizations compare in team games as well! So long as you are talking about how the two civilizations interact, anything is fair game! Last week we discussed the Lithuanians vs Malay, and next up is the Berbers vs Saracens!

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    Berbers: Cavalry and Naval civilization

    • Villagers move +10% faster
    • Stable units cost -15/20% in Castle/Imperial Age
    • Ships move +10% faster
    • TEAM BONUS: Genitour available at Archery Range from Castle Age
    • Unique Unit: Camel Archer (Powerful anti-cav archer cav archer)
    • Unique Unit: Genitour (Mounted skirmisher available at Archery Range)
    • Castle Age Unique Tech: Kasbah (TEAM Castles work +25% faster)
    • Imperial Age Unique Tech: Maghrebi Camels (Camel units regenerate)

    ​

    Saracens: Camel and Naval civilization

    • Markets cost -100w; trade cost is only 5%
    • Transport Ships 2x hp; +5 carry capacity
    • Galleys attack +20% faster
    • Archery Range units (except Skirms) +1/2/3 attack against buildings per Age
    • TEAM BONUS: Foot Archers (including Skirms) +2 attack vs buildings
    • Unique Unit: Mameluke (Expensive camel unit with powerful short-ranged attack)
    • Castle Age Unique Tech: Madrasah (Monks return 33% of their cost upon dying)
    • Imperial Age Unique Tech: Zealotry (Camel units +30 hp)

    ​

    Below are some match up-specific talking points to get you all started. These are just to give people ideas, you do not need to address them specifically if you do not want to!

    • For your 1v1 on open maps, both are civs that really want to feel good... but just aren't... quite... there. Berbers feel really blah until Castle Age, where they suddenly become a monster for pretty much the rest of the game (except vs Halb/Ram but that is a moot point in this match up). Meanwhile, Saracens always have their Market bonus to play around with, and their archers can certainly put some dents into buildings. However, they just don't have a super consistent military or economic bonus to accompany these nifty tools. What do you think?
    • On closed maps like Arena, BF, and Hill Fort, Saracens can use some neat Market tricks to get to a quick Castle Age time and then do some work with archers, monks, and siege. Meanwhile, Berbers have a pretty generic FC, but upon reaching that Age, they have two extremely powerful options with either stable units or camel archers. Whose army comp is stronger vs the other when we take Feudal fights out of the picture?
    • Both civs excel in camels, a camel UU, and navy. Which civs bonuses for those units do you prefer? Berber cheap camels vs generic ->zealotry camels, camel archers vs mamelukes, and speedy ships vs fast attacking ships. Seems pretty situational, no?

    Thanks as always for participating! Next week we will continue our discussions with the Cumans vs Vikings. Hope to see you there! :)

    ​

    Previous discussions: Part 1 Part 2 Part 3

    submitted by /u/OrnLu528
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    Sometimes it do be like that

    Posted: 17 Jun 2020 12:56 AM PDT

    Always

    Posted: 17 Jun 2020 05:18 AM PDT

    Never trust the trees. Never.

    Posted: 16 Jun 2020 11:13 AM PDT

    It was at this moment that he knew he fucked up

    Posted: 17 Jun 2020 03:39 AM PDT

    Me talking to my vills

    Posted: 17 Jun 2020 07:57 AM PDT

    AoE2 Community summed up by T90

    Posted: 16 Jun 2020 01:13 PM PDT

    When you're defeated but use the new map vision to help your mates

    Posted: 16 Jun 2020 12:22 PM PDT

    Now to lure the animals in

    Posted: 16 Jun 2020 12:42 PM PDT

    Incas vs Khmer, how do you answer to massed scorpions post imp?

    Posted: 17 Jun 2020 07:25 AM PDT

    just aoe things

    Posted: 16 Jun 2020 06:24 PM PDT

    Just a war elephant

    Posted: 16 Jun 2020 02:57 PM PDT

    After a year or training and study, he now has better micro than DauT

    Posted: 17 Jun 2020 09:37 AM PDT

    Watching old videos and this made me want to cry. I miss it so much.

    Posted: 17 Jun 2020 09:23 AM PDT

    Random Thought: Should military units go to waypoints using attack move instead of move?

    Posted: 17 Jun 2020 05:09 AM PDT

    Basically they would attack stuff on the way to the waypoint instead of blindly moving there. I can see some pros and cons right of the bat and am not exactly sold on the idea, but maybe it can be an interesting discussion.

    Edit: I mean buildings rally points only.

    submitted by /u/gmoraes_thiago
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    Did Hardest get easier? Except the tower rush they sometimes do now...

    Posted: 17 Jun 2020 08:54 AM PDT

    Pre-Update my friends and I were having difficulty on Hardest. Post-Update and we've won like 10 in a row. Something changed. Although it could be that we are getting better at scouting and countering based on the AI build orders...

    submitted by /u/pnutbuttersmellytime
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    Is Hard really very Hard now?

    Posted: 17 Jun 2020 04:57 AM PDT

    I have been playing AOE2 DE for a while now. I started playing with standard, then started to beat moderate comfortably. But I feel the jump to Hard from moderate is really big and I can't seem to wrap my head around it. Even if I do an archer rush with Mayans/Britons, I get killed off pretty fast by Skirms and Archers (within the 18th minute) before I can kill some villagers. If I don't attack rightaway with a rush and let it boom, it just comes and destroys me after 30-35 minutes after I resist the first wave. Do you feel the Hard AI is a big jump from Moderate with the recent patch? I've tried multiple civilizations (Byz, Mayans, Lith, Aztecs) but I seem to always lose even with a 2v1 handicap. Any suggestions? Thank you!

    submitted by /u/koustabhd
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    Small qol idea

    Posted: 16 Jun 2020 12:14 PM PDT

    Would be awesome if the in-queue ranked map tech-tree automatically loaded to the civ you had currently selected rather than the aztecs.

    submitted by /u/Ageofopinions
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    Is it ever worth it to fight uphill? (Spirit of the Law)

    Posted: 16 Jun 2020 09:59 AM PDT

    How to counter knights on bog island?

    Posted: 17 Jun 2020 06:55 AM PDT

    1400+ ELO level here. I played as italians on bog island vs slavs. He went fast castle followed up by knights + boom. In feudal in cleaned up his water, but of course he only needed it for the fast castle. Basically, throughout the game I couldn't mass up enough ships to effectively counter the knights, he would even sacrifice his knights just to keep my ships under the critical mass level. i also coudldn't hide my ships in the deep water because then he could easily raid my eco (which he did). I had some pikes to defend but he had way to many FU knights so he always had plenty left to raid. When he reached imp, he was way ahead of me in eco too and was ready to siege push y 2nd and 3rd tc so i resigned.

    Any ideas on how to counter this strat? Stop building ships and boom myself with land units?

    submitted by /u/OkayTimeForPlanC
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    I support a green world where every house has a small tree next to it.... Although my reasons may be different...

    Posted: 16 Jun 2020 07:50 PM PDT

    Does AOE2 DE have just PVP or does it include co-op multiplayer?

    Posted: 16 Jun 2020 05:24 PM PDT
    Read more
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