Age of Empires II Red Bull Wololo 3 Day 5 / Live Discussion

This tournament may as well be called Red Bull Upset Matches III. By my count, we've had 5 major upsets. (MbL out quick, Tatoh losing to ACCM, Hera losing to Vinchester, Yo losing to Daut, Viper losing to Villese)

Question is, what's the cause? Is the gamemode much more different than the pros give it credit for? Is the pro scene truly changing and new pros/playstyles are arising? And if it is the game mode, how do you guys feel if one of the highest paid and now "regular" tournaments rewards a game mode that isn't as commonly played?

It feels to me like it might truly be the game mode. For example, Mongols are a fairly meta pick that just never show their faces here because they're missing their early advantage entirely. Bulgarians meanwhile completely surpass a Dark Age without eco bonuses and from the start of the game, a blacksmith is right there, meaning both Bulgarians and Magyars and effectively start the game with full blacksmith upgrades for one unit type.

On top of that, it feels like the boomy players like Hera and Viper just do not get the results they're used to pulling on Random Map. Only exception is the Lord, who has divinity on his side; aside from that the game mode absolutely seems to favor aggression. You MUST make an army ASAP cause walls can be denied, and then 3+ TC booming in Castle seems questionable when the opponent already has a ball of aggression going.

And how do you guys feel about Empire Wars overall?

On one hand? Dude these upsets are....fantastic! ACCM in the Semifinals, Daut back on his game, Villese making it further, and a bunch of close matches for all of them. The only player to make it to the Semifinals without a 3-2 Score is Daut. Every single other player had to fight hard in all 5 matches to advance. It's fantastic for us as spectators. ('cept Rockslide, screw that map)

At the same time I wonder how the pros feel about the game mode. I know I hate Arena for example because there's always the possibility the opponent hides their army and oh look it counters yours, then you get punished for something you simply couldn't scout. I can imagine Empire Wars feeling similar if you lose an early army and it snowballs quickly into a loss. Larry for example lost a game to Hera precisely because an early army died and there was just no recovering from it. Tough to say though cause personally I haven't played the mode. For the most part it seems like pros have liked it too, but at the same time they might be singing a different tune now (well, some of them) given how many of them saw early eliminations in the mode lololololol. Like again, variety sounds great, but I imagine there's something bitter about the most well-paid game mode being a new one they're not as used to.

Or am I drunk and wrong and we're just witnessing a change in the top players in real time?

Thoughts?

submitted by /u/AFlyingNun
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Gotta say, I loved daut playing as Bulgarians in wololo

Posted: 23 Jan 2021 09:10 AM PST

submitted by /u/Crafty_Butcher
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Cavalry archers on DE vs Cavalry archers on Voobly

Posted: 23 Jan 2021 05:58 PM PST

Theres been a lot of stuff said about how garbage Cav archers feel on DE vs how they felt on voobly. So i went back and set up the same scenario to show that they are exactly the same on DE as they were on voobly. Exactly the same firing delay, the same attack speed, etc.

For the record, Thumb ring increases their attack speed, but not their attack delay. Husbandry makes them easier to micro, but doesnt effect attack or attack delay. Attack upgrades are super important, but dont increase attack speed or delay. Upgrading from Cav archer to Heavy cav archer reduces their attack delay (but not attack speed) and makes them very easy to micro, but is quite expensive.

The issue is that on Voobly (and HD/etc) where the game was peer to peer, the input lag made microing CA "feel better" as even if you click immediately the game didnt register it, and so between the CA firing delay and the average input delay they felt solid to micro. With DE moving to server based connection, the average ping has gone done, and so it "feels" like CA take longer to fire, but its the same amount of time that it was in pre DE.

https://youtu.be/dtImfo5Oy-w

submitted by /u/DeusVultGaming
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You only need to remember one thing to beat the AI

Posted: 24 Jan 2021 03:32 AM PST

Easy: don't resign.

Intermediate: build one castle, garrison 20 archers in it and wait for an hour until the attacks stop.

Hard: wall yourself and kill your enemy's villagers in feodal age with your favorite unit.

Harder: wall yourself and kill your enemy's villagers with your favorite unit and its counter's counter unit. Make more villagers.

Extreme: I'm not there yet.

submitted by /u/Koala_eiO
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[RBW3] ICYM Day 3 TheViper vs Villese winner's interview - Practice regime and hardware challenges

Posted: 23 Jan 2021 07:38 PM PST

submitted by /u/Adicogames
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Britons Theme (Rock/Metal cover with TABS) - Age of Empires II

Posted: 24 Jan 2021 07:32 AM PST

submitted by /u/tupaquinho
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Tatars don't need a nerf

Posted: 23 Jan 2021 12:16 PM PST

I've been seeing a lot of discussion around Tatars being overpowered following the most recent patch and I think they are being overestimated.

Tatars are a case of of a civ that seems great due to having a great combination of civ bonuses that leads to very smooth play.

However I'd argue their weak tech tree more than balances them out - no arbalest, no paladin, terrible barracks and fairly mediocre monastery and siege workshop. Heavy cav archer is arguably their power unit, but can be very hard to get going.

This on top of them having a <50% win rate in all Elo ranges. Redbull is (I think?) the only major 1v1 tournament we've seen since the buff and is non standard format so difficult to put too much stock in this, but they also hold a 20% win rate so far in the tourney with 10+ picks.

I don't think they need a buff either - not all civs need an exactly 50% win rate online and they do feel good to play. But so far I don't see any evidence of them needing a nerf after the most recent patch.

submitted by /u/Mankaur
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Information about RB3 views count

Posted: 24 Jan 2021 06:22 AM PST

Hey, I've been following the tournament but I never caught it live due to work, does anyone knows if it was been having a lot of viewers? With red bull's decision to make english commentary on their channel the viewers count is supposed to be high/concentrated. Did it work?

submitted by /u/depressing_benzo
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Is the Jan 25th game update going to follow the launch times of the base game?

Posted: 23 Jan 2021 02:56 PM PST

submitted by /u/Gandalf196
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Looking for advice to improve !

Posted: 24 Jan 2021 06:19 AM PST

Hello kind people ! I'm looking forward to some of your advice,because I'm becoming frustrated after most of my games,looking for noone,but blaming myself.

So I'm so jealous to those who fully wall and all they do is economy boom,then spam units until my fps drop to 0.I'm facing opponents who only play defensive until Imperial Age and then I lose instantly because of me spending most of my resources on army and siege trying to penetrate his defense.All my opponent does is wall after wall,even tho I'm killing his units I'm ending up loosing the game. How do I win in those kind of situations ? I'm tired of spending 1 hour into a game that I see I'm about to lose. Thank you in advance ! My elo is 763 (Yes,I've got alot to learn!)

submitted by /u/FishOfHonor
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How/when to switch to cavalry archers as Tatars?

Posted: 24 Jan 2021 05:29 AM PST

Hey all,

So I'm at around 1100 elo. I've managed to somewhat get the MAA into archers build order (not perfectly of course, but somewhat decent).

Now my problem begins when I hit castle age. By then I mostly have a couple of archers (if they're not killed). Most of the time my opponent has skirmishers as well of course.

Now my question is.. what do I do next as Tatars? I mostly just start making CA asa I hit castle with upgrades queued up; But I notice CA suck a lot without all their upgrades and it's hard to avoid their army when they're attacking me with 50/50 skirms.

So what else should I do?

Stick with archers? But Tatars don't have arbalest, so they'll fall off in imp.

Should I switch to knights while upgrading my CA and only start making CA when they're decently upgraded?

I have 2 archery ranges by the time I'm in castle. Should I then make 2 stables before I hit castle to start producing knights? My current tactic isn't really working, as I've currently lost all my games as Tatars haha.

submitted by /u/NomsayinBruh
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Siege of Acre 1191

Posted: 24 Jan 2021 08:19 AM PST

submitted by /u/VeniVidiCreavi
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Aoe 2 suddenly closing on you for no reason

Posted: 24 Jan 2021 04:13 AM PST

Did they ever try to fix this? It happens to me all the time, I have seen it happening to lots of streamers. Or are they just to incompetent to try to fix this?

submitted by /u/TomDTomDTomD
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Made a meme (spoiler alert)

Posted: 23 Jan 2021 04:39 PM PST

submitted by /u/Desh282
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Looking for great streamed games where an opponent wins through a "Sneak attack"

Posted: 24 Jan 2021 03:19 AM PST

Whether it's onagering trees down and surprising an enemy from behind; entering their base from the back or quickly trebbing a regicide castle unbeknownst to that player, or, building a sneaky second base near an enemy's location.

Whatever the surprise attack is, I love watching those games.

submitted by /u/MonkSalad1
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Breaking News

Age of Empires

Sunday, January 24, 2021

Age of Empires II Red Bull Wololo 3 Day 5 / Live Discussion

Age of Empires II Red Bull Wololo 3 Day 5 / Live Discussion

Red Bull Wololo 3 Day 5 (Semifinals and Finals)

[Tempo] Liereyy 3-1 Villese

MATCH 1:

MATCH 2:

MATCH 3:

MATCH 4:

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