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    Age of Empires II Civilization Match-up Discussion Round 13 Week 6: Spanish vs Teutons

    November 03, 2021

    Age of Empires II Civilization Match-up Discussion Round 13 Week 6: Spanish vs Teutons

    Civilization Match-up Discussion Round 13 Week 6: Spanish vs Teutons

    Posted: 02 Nov 2021 10:10 PM PDT

    Well, AoE4 may be out, but here we have the real battle for the Holy Roman Empire!

    ​

    Hello and welcome back for another Age of Empires 2 civilization match up discussion! This is a series where we discuss the various advantages, disadvantages, and quirks found within the numerous match ups of the game. The goal is to collectively gain a deeper understanding of how two civilizations interact with each other in a variety of different settings. Feel free to ask questions, pose strategies, or provide insight on how the two civilizations in question interact with each other on any map type and game mode. This is not limited to 1v1 either. Feel free to discuss how the civilizations compare in team games as well! So long as you are talking about how the two civilizations interact, anything is fair game! Last week we discussed the Chinese vs Portuguese, and next up is the Spanish vs Teutons!

    ​

    Spanish: Gunpowder and Monk civilization

    • Builders work +30% faster
    • Blacksmith upgrades do not cost gold
    • Cannon Galleons have significantly faster projectile speed and can better track moving targets
    • Gunpowder units fire +18% faster
    • TEAM BONUS: Trade units generate +25% gold
    • Unique Unit: Conquistador (Powerful mounted cannoneer)
    • Unique Unit: Missionary (Only use if you are TheViper and/or Survivalist)
    • Castle Age Unique Tech: Inquisition (Monks convert faster)
    • Imperial Age Unique Tech: Supremacy (Villagers gain exceptional combat stats)

    ​

    Teutons: Infantryand Defensive civilization

    • Monks have 2x healing range
    • Towers garrison 2x units; TCs garrison +10 units
    • Murder Holes, Herbal Medicine free
    • Barracks and Stable units gain +1/+0 armor in Castle and Imperial Age (+2/+0 total)
    • Farms cost -40%
    • TEAM BONUS: Units better resist conversion
    • Unique Unit: Teutonic Knight (Slowly, powerful, heavily armored, expensive infantry)
    • Castle Age Unique Tech: Ironclad (Siege Weapons gain +4/+0 armor)
    • Imperial Age Unique Tech: Crenellations (Castles gain +3 range; garrisoned infantry fire arrows)

    ​

    Below are some match up-specific talking points to get you all started. These are just to give people ideas, you do not need to address them specifically if you do not want to!

    • Alrighty, so this should be interesting! For 1v1 Arabia, neither of these civs particularly excite people when randomed. Spanish lack a powerful eco bonus and the critical Crossbowman upgrade, and Teutons are just... slow in pretty much every way. That said, neither civ is completely helpless - in this new world of ultra aggressive Arabia, Spanish trushes could be coming back with a vengeance, and Conqs are always going to be scary. Teutons also have a scary trush, but even putting that aside, if they can defend themselves, their slowly creep across the map will be difficult to stop. How do you see this one playing out on Arabia?
    • On the flip side, closed maps really give both of these civs the chance to shine. Spanish can utilize the strength of their Conqs, Paladins, Gunpowder, and trade, whereas Teutons can freely boom into their literally ironclad post-Imp power army. In this match up, which will be superior - Spanish Conqs in the midgame, or Teuton cavalry, infantry, and siege in the late game?
    • In team games, both of these civs naturally vastly prefer to be in the pocket position, and both are kinda flying just below the top tiers on open maps. Spanish suffer from a generic economy and army until the late game, where they turn around and become fantastic due to their strong army and trade bonus. Teutons, meanwhile, lack the mobility needed to protect their flank... but if their flank can survive, they will be assisted by an incredibly deadly army in the late game. Which of these civs do you prefer in this situation?

    Thank you as always for participating! Next week we will continue our discussions with the Celts vs Persians. Hope to see you there! :)

    ​

    Previous discussions: Part 1 Part 2 Part 3

    submitted by /u/OrnLu528
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    So what games do you play? Oh I play many games!

    Posted: 03 Nov 2021 12:15 AM PDT

    Hedge of Empires

    Posted: 03 Nov 2021 12:27 AM PDT

    OK

    Posted: 02 Nov 2021 08:13 PM PDT

    This dude in the loading screen almost killed me of a heart attack

    Posted: 03 Nov 2021 03:47 AM PDT

    So ranked has rules now apparently

    Posted: 02 Nov 2021 02:31 PM PDT

    Reporting a sour puss. Guy paused for 15 mins and later said he lagged (idc abt pausing). I continued after a total of 30 mins pause time and said sorry its too inconvenient for me. He had 1 village left and didn’t resign. After BUILDING FEW HUNDRED OUTPOSTS and saw him making a TC and queuing vils

    Posted: 03 Nov 2021 02:10 AM PDT

    November Update

    Posted: 02 Nov 2021 07:19 PM PDT

    Foods for Thoughts AOE 2 Post and neat number crunching facts

    Posted: 02 Nov 2021 11:41 PM PDT

    Spanish are the only Civ with all 3 Trash Units fully upgradeable.

    Lithunians have special bonuses to all 3 trash units, but none of them except their Skirms would have full upgrades otherwise.

    Bulgarians Bagains+2hs Tech Switch is insane. 80% faster working blacksmith, you don't need to research your way up to champion, and the price of Bagains is paid for alone by the resources you save not needing to upgrade from Longsword to Champion. The resources saved by not needing to upgrade from Militia to Longswords? Well...your (cheaper) infantry armor upgrades are mostly paid for with those. You still have Squires, Arson, and Supplies...but those are minimal.

    Berbers, Malians, Sicilians, Bulgarians, (Technically) Burmese, and Poles are all Civs with some of kind of Super-Cavalier. Berbers are cheaper, Malians have higher DPS than your average Pally, Sicilians are nearly as tanky, and kill their counters with ease, Bulgarians can trade evenly with other Pallys, or close to it, Burmese SHRED buildings(but with the upcoming PUP changes, that might end) and Poles are also ultra cheap(but also trashier, missing out on the last armor upgrade). Burgundians don't count, because they.still.get.paladin.

    Unexpectedly good units from certain Civs: Bulgarians have good Cav Archers, VIETNAMESE HAVE GOOD CAV ARCHERS(92 HP, but no Parthian), Portuguese have cheaper but FU Cavaliers(doesn't compare to Berbers, but close), everybody knows Magyars have FU Arbs, but nobody knows they have +2 Line of Sight, so they're actually BETTER than FU Arbs

    Slavs Farming Bonus is actually a WOOD PENALTY. You go through a farms 10% faster, so you have to reseed more often. In a long game, this means your wood is more precious. In games that are shorter, this just means you're reseeding earlier.

    Same with Khmer...wood penalty

    Persians faster working TC is actually a food penalty, and means you might just need more than 6 on food per working TC to keep things going.

    Turks have many unit types with some kind of special Bonus

    1. Scouts:+1 Pierce Armor, upgrades free
    2. Hand Cannoneers: +20% HP
    3. Bombard Cannnons: +1 Range compared to BBC with Siege Engineers
    4. Cavalry Archers: +20 HP

    And it's not like I'm just playing Vietnamese so I can say "Every Archery Unit I list has more HP". Or Goths and say "All my infantry is cheaper." This is a simple, unique bonus every unit gets.

    Berbers have regenerating camels. Like, WTF. Berserks and (now) Poles are the only other ones with a regenerating unit. But Camels? CAMELS? WTF.

    Turks+Berbers solves one of their biggest heartbreak...no skirms. Berbers have the Genitour, mounted skirmisher...and Turks Sipahi applies to it. Now we've got a 95HP Mounted Elite Skirmisher. It's perfect.(Tatars Silk Armor, Incas Andean Sling, Aztecs Atlatl, Mayans Hul'che Javelineers, MAYBE MONGOLS FASTER FIRING CA BONUS, AND MAYBE EVEN Huns discount on Cavalry Archers apply to it. Have fun!)

    Italians Unique Unit...no, the Infantry One, is fun to include in team games with other Civs that have infantry bonuses. Did you know that it has the same Base Speed as a Celtic Woad Raider, but minus the speed bonus? Yes, a Woad Raider runs at 1.2 without the Celt's speedy speedy zoomy run bonus. So does the Condo. I have a mod that lets me see all of the Juicy Numbers on the tooltip, and did the math in reverse. Pair with Goths to murder Gunpowder civs. Pair with Teutons to destroy their identity as a slow civilization, with lots of tankiness. Pair with Aztec/Burmese to enjoy the fun Rush of having Champion level attack on something that doesn't require as much of a tech switch. AND MALIANS LOVE THIS UNIT OMIGOSH OUTRUN PLUMES AND KILL THEM.

    BTW, Condos also attack every 1.9 seconds, whereas everysingleotherinfatryunitFUCKYOUJAPANESE attacks every 2 seconds(spears attack every 3, but we're ignoring that). Plus, the Plumed Archer also attacks every 1.9 instead of the archer standard of 2. Finally, Byzantine Cataphracts attack every 1.7 seconds as opposed to the average of Knight/Cavalier 1.8, and way quicker than Paladin's 1.9. And Tarkans attack every 2.1 Weird stuff.

    For those who didn't know, Siclians Cavaliers beat out FU Heavy Camels. Against the Super Camel Civs(Indians, Saracens, Berbers, and Malians), they win in some of those case, and in the others, still fair MUCH BETTER than your average Paladin civs do.

    Following my previous point...if you are against a Paladin Civ, and you yourself already teched into Cav, and you have FU Heavy Camels...please use those instead of Pikes/Halbs(Looking at YOU Turks). You will wreck them. Camels in Castle are a soft counter to Knights. FU Heavy Camels in IMP are a hard counter to them Pallys. DO IT.

    Persians are the only civ with FU Hussar, Paladins, and Heavy Camel Riders.

    Malay is the civ of cheap and weak and easy spam. This is why we meant to pick Magyard...we wanted better, tankier units.

    As it stands in our current version of AOE2, pre-INFANTRY BONANZA UPDATE PATCH SUPREME, If you fielded a Castle Age Teutonic Knight with FULL(CASTLE AGE) UPGRADES against a FU Post IMP CHAMPION...you'd have an equivalent unit. And the TK would probably win. Those things are tanky and powerful AF, and even when you're still in castle, they can compete with IMP Melee Units. So if you have some of these out, and you're in castle for whatever reason...takes those fights with other Melee units...you'll win.

    Malians unique unit, the Gbeto, runs at 1.25 speed without Squires, and 1.375 speed with. Basically...a ranged Woad Raider that dies to a fart. For reference, a Knight minus Husbandry runs at 1.35.

    After doing the damn math, and including things that are tough to put together, like the affects of Ballistics and greater accuracy, an Incan Slingers has the same DPS against Infantry that a Hand Canoneer does....and they counter Condos instead of getting their shit stomped. Yay us.

    That's all I've got. But feel free to wonder how I have so many of these.

    submitted by /u/Natch42
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    Magyar getting free blast furnace(idk I don't play the game that much)

    Posted: 02 Nov 2021 06:10 PM PDT

    How it feels to have Poles tower rush me as Incas

    Posted: 02 Nov 2021 08:38 AM PDT

    What happened to map voting?

    Posted: 03 Nov 2021 02:06 AM PDT

    Apparently the mappool was changed without voting this time? I don't mind it too much since it was only a few hundred people voting anyway, but an announcement of any kind would have been nice. Did I miss something?

    Edit: spelling

    submitted by /u/tjb937
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    Vikings fans realizing that the November update might take away thumb ring...

    Posted: 02 Nov 2021 12:07 PM PDT

    Coop campaign status? When will it be available?

    Posted: 03 Nov 2021 05:24 AM PDT

    Coop campaign was announced/pre-released in June for DE https://www.ageofempires.com/news/aoe2de-pupcoop/

    Co-Op begins Preview today with 5 Historical Battles, specifically selected because of how much fun they create as Co-Op scenarios. This Preview version of Co-Op will then go Live in our next Update. As we gather your feedback and make those changes, we'll be readying the release of Co-Op Campaign content, which includes 33 Missions selected from across 6 different Campaigns.

    I'm very much looking forward to playing this with my friend. Apart from the difficulty level being low even on the higest setting, the co-op scenarios were fun and worked reasonably well.

    We hoped the full campaigns would be released shortly after the preview. But here we are closing in on five months later and I don't see any updates or info regarding the expected release date.

    Does anyone know (or care to speculate) when we can expect a release of the coop campaigns?

    submitted by /u/privacyisalie
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    A change in Co-op campaigns that should be implemented for the regular campaigns

    Posted: 02 Nov 2021 08:30 PM PDT

    Thank you devs for changing the majority of the infinite resource enemies to regular economy in the Tariq ibn Ziyad Co-op scenarios. The logical next step would be to do the same for the singleplayer versions of those missions.

    submitted by /u/Thindithron
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    Civ Concept - Dutch

    Posted: 02 Nov 2021 10:45 PM PDT

    Much like the Spanish and Portuguese, the Dutch were one of the earliest colonial empires. They were one of the most renowned merchants and sailors.

    Gunpowder and Naval civilization

    - Receive gold upon first market build. (100 in Feudal, 150 in Castle, and 200 in Imperial)

    - Dry Dock and Careening are free.

    - Hand Cannoneers costs no gold in the Archery Range.

    - The Bourse replaces the Market.

    ​

    Unique Units

    Arquebusier (60f, 60g) - Hand cannoneer with high pierce armor.

    Fluyt (90w, 45g) - Gunpowder ship that fires a volley of projectiles (like Portuguese Organ Gun).

    ​

    Unique Techs

    Castle Age: Stock Exchange - Receive 100 gold for every 1000 wood/food/stone gathered.

    Imperial Age: Armed Merchants - Trade Cart fire arrows at raiders while moving.

    ​

    Unique Buildings

    Bourse - unique Market. Trade Carts receive a 10% extra bonus on top of the profit made from the return trip. Buy and sell prices increase/decrease 60% slower and lesser.

    ​

    Team Bonus

    Trade units +2/+2 armor.

    ​

    Closed

    Archery Range - Heavy Cavalry Archer

    Barracks - Eagle Warrior, Squires

    Siege Workshop - Siege Onager, Siege Ram

    Stable - Paladin, Hussar, Camels, Battle Elephants

    Blacksmith - Plate Barding Armor

    University - To be updated...

    Economic - To be updated...

    ​

    Feedback please!

    submitted by /u/hussar269c
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    UU infantry heading out to wreck the opposition post balance changes...

    Posted: 02 Nov 2021 04:25 PM PDT

    Acropolis teamgame is just a mess 11

    Posted: 03 Nov 2021 07:44 AM PDT

    Looks like KOTD Arabia is going to be in the map pool. How many of you chads are going to Dock the oasis?

    Posted: 02 Nov 2021 08:58 PM PDT

    Very bad FPS just for this game on powerful laptop

    Posted: 03 Nov 2021 06:50 AM PDT

    So, the title can serve as a TLDR.

    I have a 5900HX + RTX 3080 (Strix Scar 15).

    I have set both windows settings and nvidia settings to run the game on dedicated GPU. It even shows up on the processes utilizing GPU.

    But, I still get 601 in the ranked benchmark test. Unacceptable.

    What is happening ??

    Weird thing is, when I open task manager, and look at the 3080 tab, is see 0% 3D usage, but, significant usage of "dedicated GPU memory usage".

    submitted by /u/squidly-diddly97
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    Is the nomad change a good change?

    Posted: 03 Nov 2021 06:46 AM PDT

    What do you think? Explain why in the comments

    View Poll

    submitted by /u/PoopLord69722
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    I got significantly worse recently and i dont know what to do.

    Posted: 02 Nov 2021 05:22 PM PDT

    2 months ago i got up to 1420 elo. I was even feeling like i could reach 1500 possibly. I was beating 1300s with ease.

    Now i started loosing and i dropped to 1200 and have to sweat my ass off to beat a 1300.

    I just can't get back up to 1300, no matter what civ or strat i go for.

    Has this happened to anybody else? Getting worse and not being able to recover?

    Im not talking about hitting a plateau, im saying getting worse unexplicably.

    submitted by /u/DepressedAdultGuy
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    Would it be worth it to destroy houses with militia?

    Posted: 02 Nov 2021 12:09 PM PDT

    With the upcoming nerf to houses armor in dark age they would have -2 melee armor which allows the militia to make 6 damage to them. I made some tests and I found that if you have 3 militia destroying houses it is the equivalent of idling 1.3 villagers, and if you have 5 militia destroying houses it is the equivalent to idling 2 villagers. Since destroying houses is less micro intensive than harasing villagers it could be easier to do it.

    Do you think that an economic damage of 1.3 to 2 idling villagers in early game is worth the early investment in militia?

    These are my calculations, if you want to check them (I use the 5 militia case as an example). Them don't take into account town center idle time that this can cause for forcing getting housed and disrupting the build order, so the economic damage may be a little higher.

    5 militia will destroy a house in 38 seconds, so you could destroy 4 houses in about 152 seconds and adding to that about 50 seconds walking around the enemy base they can take around 200 seconds to destroy 4 houses. 4 houses represent 100 W lost and around 112 seconds of construction time (taking into account a little walking time of the villager to the house place) . The 100 W lost at a gathering rate of 0.36 W/s is about 278 villager-seconds which added to the 112 seconds of construction time gives around 390 villager-seconds lost in 200 seconds, which is has the same effect as idling 2 villagers during that time.

    Update: Here it is the counter strategy to this: making nice towns with houses for civilians protected by the town center instead of being used as walls: https://imgur.com/a/2YPrTVR . I actually like it.

    Update 2: I made the same test with men-at-arms and feudal houses and I got similar results: 5 men-at-arms take 34 seconds to destroy a feudal house, then they take 186 seconds to destroy 4 houses. And taking into account a faster wood gather rate in feudal age of 0,43 W/s, the villager-seconds lost this time are 112 + 100/0.43 = 344 villager-seconds in 186 seconds , gives the equivalent of 1.85 idle villagers during that time. So you could continue destroying houses with militia into men-at-arms and get about the same economic damage until some military oposition appears.

    submitted by /u/Vixark
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    Medal not emerging after completing certain missions

    Posted: 03 Nov 2021 02:18 AM PDT

    Medal not emerging after completing certain missions

    So the other day I was playing Bayinnaung and after completing the 4th scenario the medal didn't appear. So I played it again and once more it didn't come. So I moved on to the 5th scenario which I received a medal for, and surprisingly the medal also came for the Bayinnaung mission as a whole despite it not coming beside the 4th mission. I didn't get the achievement either.

    ​

    The same thing happened when I completed Sundjata but the medals for the 3rd and 4th weren't appearing (once again I didn't get the achievement).

    ​

    Please tell me why this is happening.

    ​

    https://preview.redd.it/4f324cohjcx71.png?width=575&format=png&auto=webp&s=40c363e54203e3bf8e21baf66473a2de6c2c12a5

    https://preview.redd.it/jyv8vmmhjcx71.png?width=458&format=png&auto=webp&s=674ac9c2e65fc751dfa9c75a36e9cf6cf77b6621

    https://preview.redd.it/gsgj4mmhjcx71.png?width=423&format=png&auto=webp&s=9dca8819401326d99cc26208bc2d99293c5284f2

    https://preview.redd.it/lf2liomhjcx71.png?width=686&format=png&auto=webp&s=f06b15fb20456eb6dbcc98898caa610176c8a936

    submitted by /u/AppleEmpire_2629
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