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    Age of Empires II Civilization Match-up Discussion Round 7 Week 15: Byzantines vs Persians

    Age of Empires II Civilization Match-up Discussion Round 7 Week 15: Byzantines vs Persians


    Civilization Match-up Discussion Round 7 Week 15: Byzantines vs Persians

    Posted: 25 Dec 2019 01:31 PM PST

    A historical classic for Christmas!

    Hello and welcome back for another Age of Empires 2 civilization match up discussion! This is a series where we discuss the various advantages, disadvantages, and quirks found within the numerous match ups of the game. The goal is to collectively gain a deeper understanding of how two civilizations interact with each other in a variety of different settings. Feel free to ask questions, pose strategies, or provide insight on how the two civilizations in question interact with each other on any map type and game mode. This is not limited to 1v1 either. Feel free to discuss how the civilizations compare in team games as well! So long as you are talking about how the two civilizations interact, anything is fair game! Last week we discussed the Slavs vs Vietnamese, and next up is the Byzantines vs Persians!

    Byzantines: Defensive and/or Bloodlines civilization

    • Buildings +10/20/30/40% hp per age
    • Camels, Skirmishers, and Spearmen cost -25%
    • Fire Ships attack +20% faster
    • Advancing to the Imperial Age costs -33%
    • Town Watch free
    • TEAM BONUS: Monks heal +50% faster
    • Unique Unit: Cataphract (Heavy cavalry with bonus damage vs infantry)
    • Castle Age Unique Tech: Greek Fire (Fire Ships +1 range)
    • Imperial Age Unique Tech: Logistica (Cataphracts deal 5 trample damage)

    Persians: Cavalry civilization

    • Start with +50f, +50w
    • Town Centers and Docks 2x hp; +5/10/15/20% work rate per age
    • TEAM BONUS: Knights +2 attack vs archers
    • Unique Unit: War Elephant (Heavy, heavy, heavy cavalry)
    • Castle Age Unique Tech: Kamandaran (Archer-line now costs 50w, as opposed to 25w, 45g)
    • Imperial Age Unique Tech: Mahouts (War Elephants move +30% faster)

    Below are some match up-specific talking points to get you all started. These are just to give people ideas, you do not need to address them specifically if you do not want to!

    • An interesting one! For 1v1 on an open map like Arabia or Gold Rush, do you favor Byzantines with their enormous tech tree and cheap trash, or do you favor the heavy cavalry and economic power of the Persians?
    • On water or hybrid maps, Byzantines possess powerful fire ships and an all-around fantastic water tech tree, but Persians have the extra starting res and faster working docks/TCs. Are the more powerful Byzantine fires enough to stand up to the faster working Persian docks?
    • In a team game scenario, Byzantines are certainly a top-tier flank, as Persians are for pocket. Would you take Byzantines with their strong defenses, arbs, siege ram, cheap Imp, and BBTs, or would you prefer the Persians and their top-tier boom into a never-ending stream of Paladins?

    Thank you as always for participating. I am currently travelling, so I'll figure out next week's match up when I get back home 11. Also, Merry Christmas :)

    Previous discussions: Part 1 Part 2

    submitted by /u/OrnLu528
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    A little too mega random

    Posted: 26 Dec 2019 12:09 AM PST

    Reconnecting back into a Multiplayer Game Age of Empires II DE

    Posted: 26 Dec 2019 05:32 AM PST

    Add a reconnect button for players that disconnect during the hour long game that they want to finish. If a players internet drops for 1 minute you should be given time to reconnect back like other games example league of legends or csgo. All you need to do is add a reconnect button back into your multiplayer game with friends so people dont waste hours of there life than all of sudden you disconnect and ruin there experience.

    submitted by /u/Darkmaster52
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    Been a Mac user forever, once DE came out I had to sell it and get a PC. Back to AOE after 20 years☺️

    Posted: 25 Dec 2019 08:14 AM PST

    Merry Christmas to all! In the spirit of holidays we have released a brand new diplomacy map located in the Baltic Sea ! We put a lot of work into it and we would appreciate you taking a look and playing it your selves ! Thank you for your time and happy holidays to all !

    Posted: 26 Dec 2019 01:42 AM PST

    This has definately been done before....

    Posted: 25 Dec 2019 02:27 PM PST

    Not able to Play Multiplayer (unranked)

    Posted: 26 Dec 2019 06:55 AM PST

    Has anybody the same issue?? Looking for a game for a couple of days now, but there are no games available i could join...

    submitted by /u/Odin_TheGhost
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    DE multiplayer discussion

    Posted: 26 Dec 2019 06:45 AM PST

    The main reason I bought DE was because of better multiplayer. Better matchmaking, no more reliance on lobbies and no more DC issues here I come!

    Now though, the multiplayer is even worse than HD edition, which is Just ridiculous and unacceptable. I still have to rely on lobbies now to play the maps I want, but lobbies are far worse now than in a 20 year old game. I love playing team Nomad games, it's aoe2 at it's greatest for me. I don't like always having to do the same start in standard mode, so sometimes I love to play the random adaptation dependent nature of Nomad. Lobbies are ass now, because you can't see people's elo. Is there even unranked elo now? If not, why the hell not?? Now noobs keep leaving at the begining of every Nomad game if a single vill dies because I can't set an elo minimum.

    And what about ranked? I hate sitting behind walls and booming up untill imperial for 30 minutes, which is the exact same gameplay every time, and then sending waves of units attack moving at the enemy. Black forest, especially in 4v4, is the most degenerate form of aoe2 and I can't even ban it in 4v4? What?? And if I play 2/4/6 player games instead all I get is one map ban? So now I still get an equal chance to get Nomad as Arena, another map with much of the same problems as BF? 4v4 Nomad is just out of the question, with twice as much odds as getting BF/arena lol. I guess they don't want to give too many bans to reduce queue times, but if I want to wait 20 minutes for a nomad game why can't I? Also why the frick is team islands in the map pool? Now I would need at least 3 bans to have a good time.

    At the very least put (visible) elo back in lobbies. Untill then multiplayer is unmultiplayable for me. On the upside, I like the addition of megarandom and the other map where you have to build a TC. I love the randomness in aoe2. But other people will hate this, so they still need more bans. What are your opinions on the way multiplayer has been handled?

    submitted by /u/Anessixtynine
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    Can you see opponents Elo?

    Posted: 26 Dec 2019 02:38 AM PST

    How To Protect A 7 Relic Monastery

    Posted: 25 Dec 2019 04:24 PM PST

    Christmas Brunch. Thank you T90

    Posted: 25 Dec 2019 09:46 AM PST

    Definitive? Is that code for cash grab on nostalgia?! The game looks way clunkier than the old one...

    Posted: 26 Dec 2019 08:15 AM PST

    I picked up the Bundle on the cheap to satisfy my Age craving roots from all the way back to '97,98...........and...Damnnnn.....I have mixed feelings.

    Terrain? Looks good even if it doesn't really improve on the already nice graphics of the original. I remember when guys like Ingo Van Thiel, The Rasher, grex, and more were creating beautiful maps by hand--literally picking out every single tree,rock, and water tile to make sure they lined up aesthetically. I don't really see yet how that could be achieved with this current version. It feels more like they took nice graphics from AOM and AoE3 and ported them over.

    Units? They're brighter and seem more stilty in animations. There is no smooth consistent movement with them like the original games. I'm not asking for much--I realize this isn't Total Warhammer 2-- but the least they could do is make it so that it doesn't feel like they made units brighter at the cost of animation.

    I watched my chariot archers gallop oddly along the terrain, my elephants swing at the air oddly, and really drawn out versions of the chopping/mining animations of the old Age villagers. The old game was able to make them look smooth so why in the world is this so hard on a remake that prides itself on making things better graphically?!

    Now, before you start coming at me about PC specs, I also have the HD version of Age2 (from when I wanted to satisfy the itch) and I've got the original Age 3 and both run perfectly fine. The only reason I even felt like throwing the money at the DE is because I wanted the new civs and to be able to play multiplayer again. I have Total Warhammer 1 and 2 and those run just fine as well with graphics. Civ 6? Same thing...though I have my own critique about the cartoony direction that takes.

    Buildings are slightly improved...depending on who we look at. Was it enough to make me say wow? I don't really think so.

    UI was an interesting blend of AOM style if it were made small requiring toying with to get to the right size. If I have to bump up the size of various things just to make them legible enough to see what they are, probably it's an issue of design. The interface also handles in a clunky way that made me feel like they slapped together something from a mobile game and stuck it in PC. The whole experience of going through it felt like a mobile game--from the opening menu to the menus within standard game.

    However, I will say it felt good to play the game concept again. I missed the game terribly and I'll still likely put up with the things I dislike to scratch an itch that hadn't been scratched in a long time. I just wish it didn't feel like I was tricked into playing an AOM reject in the place of my beloved AoE/2. I guess it's not surprising when I see what they have in store for the next cash grab in Age 4.

    Does anyone else from the 96-2004 crowd feel this way ??

    submitted by /u/UtredRagnarsson
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    im a new player which civiliaztion should i master

    Posted: 26 Dec 2019 08:05 AM PST

    Documentation for scenario editor in DE ?

    Posted: 26 Dec 2019 04:13 AM PST

    I am quite new to the Scenario Editor in AoE2 DE and currently try to wrap my head around how to use the different Object Attributes for the trigger effect Modify Attribute. Simply using trial and error is horrible, as there seem to be a lot of hidden assumptions.

    After looking in the various forums and using my best efforts to google I have come to the conclusion that at least one of these statements is true:

    • there simply is no "real" documentation, only what some users have found out via trial and error
    • the docs exist, but I can't find them
    • the values are common knowledge among fans and follow conventions from some other editor from older times that I haven't found yet

    Just for illustration purposes so you see what I have to deal with:

    I am trying to build an overly powerful scorpion. I have managed to find out that the value for rotation speed has to be decreased to make it turn faster (WTF?). Using "set to 0" doesn't work for minimum range, you have to "subtract 2" (WTF?) and adding 200 to attack has absolutely no effect (WTF?).

    Someone must have programmed this editor and someone should have documented this, at least for their colleagues.

    Can anybody comment on what would be the smartest way to continue?

    submitted by /u/yes_oui_si_ja
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    December patch unplayable?

    Posted: 25 Dec 2019 11:03 PM PST

    Ever since we installed the december patch, local LAN games have become unplayable. Clicking doesn't have any effect, units rubber band pretty significantly, villagers shrink to a third of their size while harvesting food or boar (which is sort of comical), units flash in and out of existence and while they're invisible, you can't select them except by hot key.

    Anyone else seeing these issues? I don't see a way to file feedback

    submitted by /u/matttron3000
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    Minor balance thoughts on buffing weaker civs

    Posted: 26 Dec 2019 07:36 AM PST

    Here's some small theorycrafting buffs that I had been thinking about while playing DE, about three civs that have been underperforming since HD and could do with a lil bit of love.


    Khmer: Palisade walls build 100% faster

    Khmer actually have a really strong lategame despite their poor winrate, I believe it would be a bad idea to buff their early game eco or their late game. Faster palisade walls would save them a little bit of time in walling, allowing them more comfort when trying to greedily take advantage of their no-tech-buildings eco bonus.


    Vietnamese: Outposts cost no stone

    Vietnamese already shine with their scouting bonus, why not go deeper into this and let them spam vision all over the map if they've got the wood and vill build time to waste for it. It might make their playstyle a little bit more different than a generic civ.


    Saracens: Remove transport ships buff, instead get free ballistics upon reaching castle age

    This might be too strong, but saracens tend to be forced to go feudal archers due to no early eco bonus, this might make feudal towers more interesting too if they survive until castle, and make the early archers investment much stronger for a while. Maybe going too far there, it could lead to a brutal timing given their archers are already really scary in the early game.

    submitted by /u/BadFurDay
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    Bug help : AOE2 crash when I go to imperial age

    Posted: 26 Dec 2019 07:33 AM PST

    As soon as I get to the imperial age during a random map (VS AI) my game just crash. I tried searching for answers but didn't find on my own. Is it a reported bug? Do you have any ideas where that comes from? Otherwise my game totally works

    submitted by /u/Maxou14
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    Desperately needs a reconnect option

    Posted: 25 Dec 2019 09:58 AM PST

    I was just playing a 4v4, spent all this time building my economy, was top score by far, just started churning out my army and BOOM, game crashes to desktop. No option to reconnect. GG.

    submitted by /u/tansletaff
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    Suggestion for build order guides by cicero

    Posted: 26 Dec 2019 06:45 AM PST

    Meryy Christmas/Happy holidays guys

    Over the course of the last two days, I was training with build order guides - they are great, helpful way to get you used to early game but there is always a room for improvement.

    I find the scoring system a bit confusing (F,E,D...) I mean I don't really know what this means and why am I getting an F and not a D...I know it is probably not the easiest thing in the world to ask for but a tiny, very general report of 4-5 lines would be very helpful at the end of the order just to know where things went wrong...

    Also, the build orders does not take rushing into account, so I was wondering if there are any build orders that do (apart from the Art of War ones)....

    Thanks :D

    submitted by /u/MoVoner12
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    Malay Madness - HARBORS Only

    Posted: 25 Dec 2019 05:38 PM PST

    Who the actual F came up with the campaign A.I?

    Posted: 26 Dec 2019 06:30 AM PST

    Not sure if it was like this before on AoC as I've never played above moderate difficulty there, but I paved my way through annoying-ass longbowman micro in the Joan campaign, all the way up to the Siege of Paris. What the shit?

    As you probably know, the a.i can perfectly micro every single longbowman. At the same time without delay, so that makes them literally impossible without running your knights into them, with 2 dying at least or even using crossbows, cause while you're trying to kill one, five others will have shot you down.Now, I told myself git gud and ended up reaching the segment with the bridge. You know, the one where there's galleons and stuff. So normally, you'd expect that since i have 5 bombard cannons I'd be able to kill the galleons and monks and be on my way. YOU'D EXPECT. It's literally impossible to land a shot on a galleon unless I'm simultaneously micro-ing five bombards to shoot in a larger area of effect. Sure, it's hard difficulty, but this is stupid.

    //rant over

    I guess what I'm trying to suggest is the super-micro A.I be toned down a bit. It's not challenging, it's simply stupid.

    edit: ok i got gud lmaoo ez

    submitted by /u/Evomatter
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    New Map Pool

    Posted: 25 Dec 2019 08:39 PM PST

    I don't understand why there was this drastic of a change.

    I thought it was going to be something like:

    *Removed Rivers
    *Added some new map
    *Tweaked Random Map X
    *Added ability to ban after map selection
    --We added the ability for both parties to have up to 1 ban after selection, forcing the server to choose a new map again without the banned map in the pool.

    Instead we got this thing that deters me from playing at all. Black Forest, MegaRandom are super strange additions. Not 1, but 2 Nomads, and a single ban in Team Games is a joke. You guys don't like Nomad? Too bad, there are 2 compared to your 1 ban.

    I'm just not going to play ranked until there is a change. It's my only way to really protest this other than posting on their website, and here, which I have now done.

    submitted by /u/OlafForkbeard
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    how do i counter skirmishers

    Posted: 26 Dec 2019 06:10 AM PST

    Why is this game so poorly made?

    Posted: 26 Dec 2019 02:09 AM PST

    I'm having crashes every 1 in 5 1v1 games and every 1 in 3 team games.Like it's crashing in feudal sometimes for fucks sake.

    Sometimes it says network connection was lost,sometimes there's no error message.

    So many winnable games lost because of this,makes it shitty to climb the ladder.

    Before y'all say my pc sucks,I can run fully modded Skyrim at 100+ fps,csgo and overwatch at 200+ fps

    submitted by /u/annucox
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