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    Home Unlabelled Age of Empires II Civilization Match-up Discussion Round 8 Week 13: Aztecs vs Incas

    Age of Empires II Civilization Match-up Discussion Round 8 Week 13: Aztecs vs Incas

    March 25, 2020

    Age of Empires II Civilization Match-up Discussion Round 8 Week 13: Aztecs vs Incas

    Civilization Match-up Discussion Round 8 Week 13: Aztecs vs Incas

    Posted: 24 Mar 2020 09:59 PM PDT

    Mesoamerica vs South America!

    ​

    Hello and welcome back for another Age of Empires 2 civilization match up discussion! This is a series where we discuss the various advantages, disadvantages, and quirks found within the numerous match ups of the game. The goal is to collectively gain a deeper understanding of how two civilizations interact with each other in a variety of different settings. Feel free to ask questions, pose strategies, or provide insight on how the two civilizations in question interact with each other on any map type and game mode. This is not limited to 1v1 either. Feel free to discuss how the civilizations compare in team games as well! So long as you are talking about how the two civilizations interact, anything is fair game! Last week we discussed the Chinese vs Khmer, and next up is the Aztecs vs Incas!

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    Aztecs: Infantry and Monk civilization

    • Villagers carry +5
    • Military units created ~18% faster
    • Monks +5 hp per Monastery tech researched
    • Start with +50g
    • TEAM BONUS: Relics +33% gold
    • Unique Unit: Jaguar Warrior (Anti-infantry infantry)
    • Castle Age Unique Tech: Atlatl (Skirms +1 attack, +1 range)
    • Imperial Age Unique Tech: Garland Wars (Infantry +4 attack)

    ​

    Incas: Infantry Defensive Villager civilization

    • Start with a free llama
    • Villagers affected by infantry Blacksmith upgrades
    • Houses support 10 population
    • Buildings cost -15% stone
    • TEAM BONUS: Farms built +50% faster
    • Unique Unit: Kamayuk (Powerful spearman with 1 range)
    • Unique Unit: Slinger (Anti-infantry archer)
    • Castle Age Unique Tech: Andean Sling (Skirms and Slingers no minimum range)
    • Imperial Age Unique Tech: Couriers (Kamayuks, Slingers, and Eagles +1/+2 armor)

    ​

    Below are some match up-specific talking points to get you all started. These are just to give people ideas, you do not need to address them specifically if you do not want to!

    • This one is aggro! So for your 1v1 open maps, both of these civilizations can really get up in the other's base early on. Incas are going to have a more powerful trush (potentially with super vills), whereas Aztecs can do pretty much anything well and have a smoother transition. From the midgame onwards, I see this match up as both civs trying to counter the other with various counter unit transitions. Who do you favor in that respect?
    • Specifically on Golden Pit/Gold Rush, both of these civs are quite powerful (as they are on pretty much any open land map lol), but in particular, which civ do you favor in their ability to take control of the all-important middle gold, and then be able to hang on to it? It strikes me that Aztecs will have an easier time getting control initially, but if Incas are able to get it from them, their defenses will likely be impenetrable.
    • When it comes to raiding, any of the 3 American civs' eagles are going to be incredible, but in the context of late game raiding, would you prefer the Aztecs and their +8 attack eagle warriors that can kill stuff quickly or the Incas and their +4/+6 armor eagles that can tank a ton of arrowfire?

    Thanks as always for participating! Next week we will continue our discussions with the Celts vs Franks. Hope to see you there! :)

    ​

    Previous discussions: Part 1 Part 2 Part 3

    submitted by /u/OrnLu528
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    Meanwhile you realise you want to have that thing:

    Posted: 25 Mar 2020 02:27 AM PDT

    Life after Hidden Cup.

    Posted: 24 Mar 2020 03:58 PM PDT

    Viewing your stats on DE

    Posted: 25 Mar 2020 05:08 AM PDT

    I find viewing your own stats very underwhelming. In particular, I know it tells you your 'best civ' but I would like to know my win percentage with each civ. This is something the game is recording I assume anyway because it tells you your best civ. And stats on how you are on different maps would always be amazing.

    Does anybody else feel this is missing?

    submitted by /u/TheSuaveYak
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    Viewership comparison of Hidden Cups

    Posted: 24 Mar 2020 11:02 AM PDT

    MBL - Auto Everything (Official Video)

    Posted: 24 Mar 2020 11:17 AM PDT

    "I feel nice"

    Posted: 24 Mar 2020 03:23 PM PDT

    I sometimes pause the game to think (AOE2DE Ranked) Does this go against etiquette?

    Posted: 25 Mar 2020 07:03 AM PDT

    Sometimes if I'm faced with a bunch of units or a civilization I'm not the most familiar with, I will pause the game to think about my next steps. Sometimes I even flick to the civilizations screen to see a list of their possible units.

    Is this bad etiquette?

    submitted by /u/iDeanoo
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    How should I allocate my villagers after castle age?

    Posted: 25 Mar 2020 01:59 AM PDT

    Whenever I get to the point of finishing a fast castle or finishing a flush, I'm always lost on what resources to send my villagers on. Or should I send them to build another TC? A forward castle? I do well up until this point, and by the time I need to start being able to pump out units, I find I have drastically more resources than the others. Obviously, whatever resource I have too much of, I should put villagers on the other resources. But is there any specific order I should focus on? Should I have like 5 villagers queue'd up for wood, then 5 for food, etc, or 1 food, then 1 wood, then 1 gold? How do you guys usually go about it?

    submitted by /u/trentthesomalian
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    Extreme AI

    Posted: 24 Mar 2020 04:47 PM PDT

    Age of Empires through the times

    Posted: 25 Mar 2020 08:04 AM PDT

    I remember downloading AoK before i got DE (around christmas). My trebs were dealing much more damage, like 15% of a castle.

    Does anyone remember how balance was back then and how it changed when AoC came out? And then HD and DE?

    What were the scariest units of their time and what unit/building/tech got the biggest nerf (or buffs)?

    submitted by /u/Damwing
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    The new version 9 of the First Person AoE2 (Overreign) just released. Have fun playing

    Posted: 24 Mar 2020 03:12 PM PDT

    MbL’s “Go imp!”

    Posted: 25 Mar 2020 05:48 AM PDT

    Hello there,

    I'm looking for the stream where MbL was cocasting and was shouting "Go imp"

    I'm afraid that's all I remember, looking for a captain for the link!

    submitted by /u/BorisPeaceTV
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    How to use historical building data mod in scenario and for making a scenario

    Posted: 25 Mar 2020 05:54 AM PDT

    Hi there folks, I am trying to create a scenario like Balkans 1400 except it is for India 1452.

    I want to use Central Asian architechture for Persians but I don't understand how to do it because this is the first scenario I am making.

    So how do I make use Architechture of a Civilization for another civilizaton.

    And where do I start for basics in scenario making (Like triggers and stuff) . I thank you for any kind of help you could give me.

    submitted by /u/Golden_Rule_rules
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    Strategy questions related to a specific match agains ai

    Posted: 25 Mar 2020 02:47 AM PDT

    The match was DE vs hardest ai, arena, me - magyars, ai - vietnamese.

    I restarted it 5 times and I just cant win. I can outboom the ai, I can beat it to castle, to imperial, I have plenty of resources, lots of production buildings, but I just cant seem to win fights.

    The AI spams pretty much everything, rattan archers, imperial skirms, halbs, rams, elephants.

    I dont know what units to use and how.

    When AI spams everything, I feel like my units just never fight effectively, my hussars always seem to be fighting halbs, my archers always seem to target rams or skirms. I cant micro every single unit to stop if from doing dumb things :(

    AI never uses formations so onagers/scorpions are useless. Outnumbering them doesnt seem possible, they have so many production buildings that even if i made more, i dont think it would matter, the units are already produced faster than they can die, I am already at 200 pop most of the time.

    Raiding doesnt seem to do much, the AI can micro everything unlike a human and it tends to build its economy in a way thats very difficult to raid effectively. Besides, once in imp it can just replace it villagers quickly.

    My observation from several DE games is that melee units suck and are unreliable, they frequently just flat out refuse to do what i tell them.

    Generally it seems that when i fight against AI, if i have a good ranged unit that outranges ai, I win, if i dont, i lose. In this match, I cant deal with rattan archers and imperial skirmishers, so I lose.

    ​

    What do I do? I am not interested in advice on rushing or build orders, I am specifically having problem with late game. Thanks.

    ​

    Edit: just tried the same matchup and same strategy on a different arena, and won without much trouble. I dont get it.

    submitted by /u/ancistrus2718
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    Hidden Cup 3

    Posted: 25 Mar 2020 08:42 AM PDT

    Are all the games on YouTube yet ? I couldn't watch them on twitch because of the time zone difference,has T90 uploaded them to YouTube yet ?

    submitted by /u/plwdr
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    Every game in DE is laggy suddenly?

    Posted: 25 Mar 2020 04:34 AM PDT

    For the last 2-3 days I have had this issue that the game keeps stopping every 10 seconds in online matches and then resumes again after about 2-3 seconds. Super choppy and impossible to play. My internet speed has been inconsistent lately, but I have checked just now after yet another game started of like this and my speed was 50mb/s download- and 2mb/s upload. This is the usual speed I get and it always worked well in the last few weeks. My pings to the closest servers are all within 100-150 ms. Any ideas? Do you experience something similar at the moment?

    submitted by /u/Sinapellido94
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    N00b Here. Just learned that BF is played on explored. Are there other maps that have specific configurations?

    Posted: 25 Mar 2020 08:02 AM PDT

    If so, where can I check that information out?

    Thanks in advance

    submitted by /u/PalomSage
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    Fixing Tatars and Cumans with just tweaks in their (poor) design

    Posted: 25 Mar 2020 08:00 AM PDT

    We saw a Cumans pick in hidden cup 3 and it got laughed off stage. Tatars are so bad nobody seriously picks them. These civs feel like budget mongols/huns to me and need more identity. This is just my wishlist to fix them.

    Cumans:

    Cumans I think should have more early game aggression, since they have unique early game mechanics and Kipchak/CA are way too predictable of a late/mid game focus, so you need more early game disruption to make them work without completely changing their 'pointless' focus on an easily counterable unit.

    • "Cavalry moves x% faster through each age" tech should be changed to "Cavalry and Siege move x% faster through each age".

    This lets them be more aggressive with rams and onagers (that little bit of movement speed could make a difference in micro battles).

    • Siege Workshops cost 25% less wood.

    This lets them be much more aggressive in the feudal age.

    • Also, I think all civ Steppe Lancers should receive a small +bonus damage vs Villagers or instead of that vs CA, to make them a specialized raider unit.

    Tatars:

    Tatars often can't even leverage their civ bonuses, like on arena, lol. Keshiks are awesome meatshields but that's about it. I feel like buffing Keshiks is a mistake, since they were given a stupid amount of HP and have low cost for their stats. I honestly think they should just be completely rebalanced again, but I'm not going to do that here since I just want to make tweaks.

    • Units do +50% damage when attacking from higher elevations (instead of +25%).

    It is really unclear to me if this bonus has any effect when firing over a cliff. It should be reworded (and if necessary, fixed) to also be in effect when firing from a cliff top. Also, if Tamerlane really is the greatest military dude ever, this bonus should be expanded:

    • Units are also +25% more accurate when attacking from higher elevations.

    This would buff trebs and gunpowder units, which makes sense to me for increasing diversity of the Tatar army. At the very least, I would like to see more inspiration from Tamerlane's tactics and maybe just rework this bonus entirely so that flat-terrain maps don't just negate this bonus entirely. Or maybe a secondary bonus added to this civ like "Cavalry gain +2 dmg vs walls" (would make scouts chipping on palisades in dark age way scarier) or "siege deal X% bonus dmg vs defensive structures". Or possibly even, "Destroying buildings with cavalry or infantry generate 50 gold".

    At the very least, +1 range to trebs 'is nice' but is not gameplay defining enough of a bonus to make me say, 'oh yeah, if you want to siege people with trebs, go Tatars'. Not really. This tech could stand to have another bonus added to it.

    • Timurid Siegecraft now also grants faster movement speed to unpacked Trebuchets (to help them keep up with a cav-focused civ that doesn't get Paladin).

    I think this civ badly needs an eco bonus to stay competitive. In order to make the whole Keshik gimmick pull its weight, I would suggest the following:

    • Receive 100 gold upon completing any University technology research.

    OR

    • Receive a free monk upon building your first university.

    Tamerlane was a patron of the arts, so I think the civ should have a bonus that hints at that. Having an early monk is hugely important to collecting relics. A gold bonus would also make some sort of sense and would incentivize you to grab food/wood techs for gold, or to get a partial "gold rebate" on completion of those techs which cost gold, in total you would only get 1,000 gold from this tech, but that's pretty okay honestly.

    Instead, the dumbest but maybe least-effort bonus to implement would be:

    • Economic and University technologies are researched +50% faster.

    We saw in HC3 that ballistics research time was kind of important and critical to winning some key battles, so I guess this would be okay, too, but ugh it doesn't really seem that interesting at other levels of play or a key reason to play this civ.

    It's a pipe dream that any of this would ever happen, but they did buff feitorias and I was so sure they would never do that!

    submitted by /u/kookycavemen
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    Is it worth streaming AOE2 as a 26F noob?

    Posted: 25 Mar 2020 12:16 AM PDT

    Dear friends! Now that HC3 is over its inspired me to stream on twitch but I'm not very good yet. I played this game a lot when I was a kid and got back into it just recently so I'm still playing against the AI (I just won the moderate AI for the first time last night in a 6,5h long game, it was savage). I think my ELO (if I played on voobly) would be about 900?

    I love the game and I'm still learning but I think as a female player I can be entertaining without having to wear a low cut top lol (no diss)

    Also I have a shitty Win7 laptop so I'm playing AOE2 HD with the big goddamn trees 😂 and for some reason I can't play on Voobly,only against AI at the moment.

    What are your thoughts, should I do it or is no one gonna really be interested unless I'm super good at it?

    submitted by /u/sweetsauce007
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    I am new

    Posted: 25 Mar 2020 01:49 AM PDT

    Hello, I am new in aoe 2, my problem is that I don't know which game I need, and what program I need to play online, because I real want to play online. So wat game version and wat program do I need?

    submitted by /u/knivelover001
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    How do the different types of animals compare?

    Posted: 25 Mar 2020 06:36 AM PDT

    I am a new player and all the guide reference sheep. What about goats, cows, turkeys etc? Is the total amount of food you get always the same or does it vary from map to map? What about boar, rhinos and elephants?

    submitted by /u/grovestreet4life
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    Best tournaments to watch?

    Posted: 24 Mar 2020 07:58 PM PDT

    Was able to see Hidden Cup 3 recently and it revived my love for AoE2 again.

    What are some previous good tournaments to watch?

    submitted by /u/Tinkai
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