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    Home Unlabelled Age of Empires II Civilization Match-up Discussion Round 13 Week 7: Celts vs Persians

    Age of Empires II Civilization Match-up Discussion Round 13 Week 7: Celts vs Persians

    November 10, 2021

    Age of Empires II Civilization Match-up Discussion Round 13 Week 7: Celts vs Persians

    Civilization Match-up Discussion Round 13 Week 7: Celts vs Persians

    Posted: 09 Nov 2021 09:49 PM PST

    "Hey.... we're classic AoE civs.... can we also be in AoE4 plz? <3"

    ​

    Hello and welcome back for another Age of Empires 2 civilization match up discussion! This is a series where we discuss the various advantages, disadvantages, and quirks found within the numerous match ups of the game. The goal is to collectively gain a deeper understanding of how two civilizations interact with each other in a variety of different settings. Feel free to ask questions, pose strategies, or provide insight on how the two civilizations in question interact with each other on any map type and game mode. This is not limited to 1v1 either. Feel free to discuss how the civilizations compare in team games as well! So long as you are talking about how the two civilizations interact, anything is fair game! Last week we discussed the Spanish vs Teutons, and next up is the Celts vs Persians!

    ​

    Celts: Infantry and Siege civilization

    • Infantry move +15% faster starting in Feudal Age
    • Lumberjacks work +15% faster
    • Siege Weapons fire +25% faster
    • Sheep will always be converted to Celt player if unit is within LoS
    • TEAM BONUS: Siege Workshops work +20% faster
    • Unique Unit: Woad Raider (Fast, powerful infantry)
    • Castle Age Unique Tech: Stronghold (Castles and Towers fire +25% faster)
    • Imperial Age Unique Tech: Furor Celtica (Siege Workshop units +40% hp)

    ​

    Persians: Cavalry civilization

    • Start with +50w, +50f
    • Town Centers and Docks have 2x hp; work +10/15/20% faster in Feudal, Castle, and Imperial Age
    • TEAM BONUS: Knights +2 attack vs archers
    • Unique Unit: War Elephant (Expensive, chonky cavalry boi)
    • Castle Age Unique Tech: Kamandaran (Archer-line now costs 60w, instead of 25w, 45g)
    • Imperial Age Unique Tech: Mahouts (War Elephants move +30% faster)

    ​

    Below are some match up-specific talking points to get you all started. These are just to give people ideas, you do not need to address them specifically if you do not want to!

    • Alrighty, two classic Age of Kings civs here! For 1v1 Arabia, Celts are picked relatively often at all levels (even if they are not called Hoang), and are seen as pretty good all around. They have a strong economy, powerful Feudal Age and early Castle Age, and possess a deadly late game. Persians, meanwhile, are kind of a forgotten for Arabia. They aren't bad, but are generally overshadowed by more flashy civs. Still, they have a strong eco, reasonably broad tech tree, and very importantly in this case - have super tanky Town Centers that can soak up tons of Mango shots. How do you see this one playing out on the classic 1v1 Arabia setting?
    • In closed maps, Celts are also picked more often than Persians, due to the former's access to a great eco into a strong halb + siege army. Meanwhile, Persians don't really get the opportunity to utilize the mobility of their cavalry. That said, Persians do have a similarly fantastic economy, and their late game options actually have some nice variety with gunpowder, good trash, and perhaps even the War Elephant. How do you see this one playing out on more closed maps?
    • In team games, these civs have kind of a strange dynamic. For open maps, most players would prefer Persians by a substantial margin as a pocket civ (neither are great on flank), simply because they nicely execute your standard meta of scouts into boom and cavalry. However, on closed maps, Celts instantly rocket to a top tier pick due to the ability of maps like BF and Arena to stall until Imperial Age. How do you see these civs faring in a team game setting?

    Thank you as always for participating! Next week we will continue our discussions with the Burgundians vs Mongols. Hope to see you there! :)

    ​

    Previous discussions: Part 1 Part 2 Part 3

    submitted by /u/OrnLu528
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    AoE2 is a hell of a drug

    Posted: 09 Nov 2021 08:56 PM PST

    Socotra was a mistake

    Posted: 10 Nov 2021 05:15 AM PST

    11/10 brain | 1/10 castle drop

    Posted: 10 Nov 2021 02:21 AM PST

    ready for a team game? :)

    Posted: 09 Nov 2021 11:53 AM PST

    Quiz: How good is your Tech Tree knowledge?

    Posted: 10 Nov 2021 07:03 AM PST

    Hi all! Today I'm celebrating 10k Karma (credit goes to you all, who gave me the upvotes and awards) with a 30 question Quiz that will evaluate your knowledge of Tech Trees. I have separated questions in 3 levels of knowledge (Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced). You can get a list of all the civs to help you, but can't get access to aoe2techtree.net :-P Who accepts the challenge? You can tell me how many out of 10 you got for each level! Let's go! Hope you like it!

    Beginner level

    A1. What is the only civ that doesn't get Elite Skirmisher or Pikeman?

    A2. What is the only civ that gets fully upgraded Arbalester, Paladin and Heavy Cavalry Archer?

    A3. What are the only 2 civs that don't get Onagers?

    A4. What are the only 2 non-European civs without a regional unit?

    A5. What are the 4 civs that lack both Bloodlines and Husbandry?

    A6. What civ gets the highest melee armor unit in the game?

    A7. What civ gets the longest ranging non-cheat unit?

    A8. What is the only civ that can cut trees with 4 different units?

    A9. What are the only 2 civs that miss two Barracks Technologies?

    A10. What is the civ with less Siege Workshop upgrades/units available?

    Intermediate level

    B1. What is the only civ that has no way of increasing the HP of any of their buildings (rather than Age advancing)?

    B2. What is the only civ that gets all University techs?

    B3. What civ gets the Camel unit with the highest attack?

    B4. What is the civ with the highest HP Towers?

    B5. What is the civ with the highest number of warships available?

    B6. What civ can get access to a higher number of mounted non-Siege melee units?

    B7. What is the only civ that gets BBT, but no BBC or HC?

    B8. What is the civ with less University Technologies available?

    B9. What is the only Camel civ that gets a Bonus that only affects Knights?

    B10. What is the civ that has fewer units available in 1v1 Arabia?

    Advanced level

    C1. What are the only 2 civs that get Parthian Tactics but not Thumb Ring?

    C2. What 3 civs get the longest ranging buildings?

    C3. What civs get the units with the most armor classes?

    C4. What is the land non-Siege unit with the highest pierce armor?

    C5. What is the only civ that can't do anything to affect enemy conversions?

    C6. What are the only 2 civs that could get access to 2 non-Siege melee units with >19 attack?

    C7. What is the civ that could get access to most fully upgraded infantry units?

    C8. What are the 2 civs that lack most Dock techs/units?

    C9. What is the civ with most units available at the Castle?

    C10. What is the civ with more free techs?

    ANSWERS

    Beginner level

    A1.Turks have always depended on Hussars and gold due to poor trash units

    A2.Magyars, who also get a Team Bonus affecting Arbalester LOS and a UT affecting Cav Archers

    A3.Turks and Huns, who have to rely on other options (Rams, BBC, Tarkans) against massed Archers/Skirms in Imperial

    A4.Japanese and Koreans don't get access to Eagles, Steppe Lancers, Camels or Battle Elephants

    A5.Aztecs, Incas, Mayans and Vikings. Viks are the only civ with a Stable but no Stable Techs

    A6.Teutons. The fully upgraded Elite Teutonic Knight gets 13 armor

    A7.Tatars. The Trebuchet after Siege Engineers and Timurid Siegecraft gets 19 range

    A8.Khmer. Villagers, Onagers, Trebuchets and Ballista Elephants can cut trees

    A9.Khmer (miss Supplies and Squires) and Goths (miss Supplies and Arson but get bonuses instead)

    A10.Huns can only upgrade the Siege Ram and lack BBC. They also don't get Siege Engineers

    Intermediate level

    B1.Aztecs lack Masonry, Architecture and Hoardings

    B2.Koreans is the only civ with a full University

    B3.Tatars. The Flaming Camel has 20 attack, more than the Malian Heavy Camel or the Elite Mameluke (14)

    B4.Chinese, after Masonry, Architecture and Great Wall, get 3539HP Keeps

    B5.Portuguese: Galley-line, Fire Ship (Vikings lack these), Demo Ship (Koreans lack these), Cannon Galleon and Caravel

    B6.Tatars: Scout-line, Knight-line, Camel, Steppe Lancer and Keshik

    B7.Chinese, the gunpowder inventors, lack 2 gunpowder options

    B8.Huns only get the standard 3 techs (Murder Holes, Ballistics and Chemistry) and Masonry

    B9.Persians' Team Bonus gives Knights +2 attack vs Archers

    B10.Mayans have less options due to lack of mounted and gunpowder units and can't convert Stables for Xolotl

    Advanced level

    C1.Burmese and Khmer get this strange feature, since Thumb Ring is essential for Cav Archers

    C2.Teuton Castles, Turk BBT and Korean arrow-Towers are tied at 13 range

    C3.Spanish Conquistadors (Arch, Cav, Cav Arch, Gunpowder and Unique unit) and Indian Elephant Archers (Arch, Cav, Cav Arch, War Elephant and Unique unit) are tied at 5 armor classes

    C4.The fully upgraded Lithuanian Imperial Skirmisher (Tower Shields gives them +2 pierce armor) has 11 pierce armor

    C5.Tatars lack Heresy and Faith, and don't get any bonus to resist conversions

    C6.Aztec Champions (21) and Jaguars (20) after Garland Wars and Lithuanian Paladin (20) and Elite Leitis (22) after 4 relics

    C7.Incas, if allied with Italians, get access to 5 options: Champions, Halbs, Eagles, Condottiero and Kamayuk

    C8.Cumans and Bulgarians lack Dry Dock, Shipwright, Heavy Demo and Elite Cannon Gall. Cumans also lack Cannon Gall. and Bulgarians lack Fast Fire Ship

    C9.Tatars, with a Cuman ally, after both research their Unique Techs, have Keshiks, Trebuchets, Petards, Flaming Camels and Elite Kipchaks

    C10.Koreans get 6 techs for free: 3 Archer armors and 3 Tower (Guard Tower, Keep and BBT) upgrades

    submitted by /u/Azot-Spike
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    Which are your favorite Historical Battles?

    Posted: 09 Nov 2021 10:15 PM PST

    how it feels to fight poles on arena [and also maybe franks]

    Posted: 10 Nov 2021 02:22 AM PST

    People 11ing and taunting when they win

    Posted: 09 Nov 2021 11:57 PM PST

    Would be alright getting no response to the defeated player's gg, but seriously this sort of toxicity of taunting is way over the line. It doesn't just stay with a few players, it grows on people slowly the more they encounter it. I don't understand why there is no option to disable chat.

    Great game but a really childish community.

    submitted by /u/cyberninja891
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    I recently resigned a match 20 mins into a game and got a 4 min delay before I can queue again... How does this happen? Is this supposed to happen?

    Posted: 10 Nov 2021 03:33 AM PST

    My weirdest "win" ever

    Posted: 09 Nov 2021 03:49 PM PST

    As one of the few people left who play HD, getting a game going isn't that easy. But I opened a 1v1 Nomad and someone joined, and it was a fun game that played out really interestingly.

    We both built our TCs close together, which I discovered when he garrisoned his villagers to shoot at my deer hunters early on. There was a woodline between our TCs and we both house walled. He feudaled first and built towers, I retreated to other resource sites and allowed him to slowly take down my TC as I went up to castle. He really overcommitted to towers, building 4 or 5 when I had already abandoned the area. I entered castle before him, got some knights to attack his un-towered areas.

    He cleaned up my first base but I had 2 TCs elsewhere now. He even built TWO castles near my former base, meanwhile I just built one on a hill nearby to guard the approach to my new area. He won out on water, but I had map control on land as he had boxed himself in with his towers and castles while I had a better mobile army.

    Then I reach imp about half a minute before him and shit out trebs and bbc (I was Turks). This was going to be interesting because he still had more castles and could have out produced me.

    But... he resigned then and there.

    Not because he thought he had no chance anymore, no. At this point the game really became interesting.

    He resigned with the following words:

    "gg have to poop"

    submitted by /u/JarlFrank
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    Does anyone actually play Scouts into Archers?

    Posted: 10 Nov 2021 07:30 AM PST

    There is a build order for it but I don't think I have seen it in action.

    submitted by /u/1mdelightful
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    Aoe2 multiplayer community

    Posted: 10 Nov 2021 02:36 AM PST

    1. Should I buy aoe2 DE on steam or windows Store??

    2. Do I need to buy the expansions as well if I need to play multiplayer ;_;

    3. Is there any difference in the multiplayer experience on steam vs windows? Or do they have the same community?

    4. If the community is different, which community is better in terms of playing community games the way t90 plays(diplomacy, migration, regicide, exploding kings etc)

    submitted by /u/PandeyyJi
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    How often do you experience toxic behaviour on the game?

    Posted: 10 Nov 2021 05:56 AM PST

    Only I ask because about once a week we get an angry post on here about how this community needs to sort itself out, stop being dicks, stop misbehaving, all that. And I can only speak for myself but in 100s of 1v1 games I can count the amount of bad behaviour on one hand. Maybe two or three times at most? And even then, pretty mild. Nobody has ever laughed at me for losing either, it's purely people bitter after I win a game.

    My impression is that this is a super nice community but maybe I'm in my 1v1 bubble. So I thought I'd get a bit of data. Obviously it's subjective what "often" and "rarely" are so if people could give a rough idea of why they answered in the comments that might be useful. ELO range as well. Too many variables for me to plot in this poll but I could imagine it making a difference.

    View Poll

    submitted by /u/Snikhop
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    Odd chance 11

    Posted: 10 Nov 2021 07:11 AM PST

    Do you mind civ picking when the civs picked are not franks or brits?

    Posted: 10 Nov 2021 06:53 AM PST

    Or other civs I see people call tryhard civs, like Mayans I think

    submitted by /u/loefferrafael
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    I just lamed...a Barracks

    Posted: 09 Nov 2021 10:28 AM PST

    New Burmese Manipur Cavalry

    Posted: 09 Nov 2021 08:31 PM PST

    Some TTK (Time To Kill) calculations for the new Manipur Cavalry from the next patch (+5 bonus damage to Archer armor class replaces +6 bonus damage to Standard Building armor class, upgrade cost stays the same) according to November PUP notes found here:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe2/comments/qkwf38/november_public_update_preview_changes/

    vs. generic Arbalester

    Cavalier/Battle Elephant (not including trample damage)

    Before Manipur Cavalry

    40/(12+4-3) = 3.08 = 4 hits vs. Ring Armor (+3) Arbalester

    40/(12+4-2) = 2.86 = 3 hits vs. Leather Armor (+2) Arbalester

    After Manipur Cavalry

    40/(12+4-3+5) = 2.22 = 3 hits vs. +3 Arbalester

    40/(12+4-2+5) = 2.11 = 3 hits vs. +2 Arbalester

    Totaling +25% faster TTK vs. +3 Arbalester, and no change vs. +2 Arbalester.

    Light Cavalry/Hussar

    Before

    40/(7+4-3) = 5.0 = 5 hits for +3 Arbalester

    40/(7+4-2) = 4.44 = 5 hits for +2 Arbalester

    After

    40/(7+4-3+5) = 3.07 = 4 hits for +3 Arbalester

    40/(7+4-2+5) = 2.85 = 3 hits for +2 Arbalester

    Totaling +20% TTK vs. +3 Arbalester, and +40% TTK vs. +2 Arbalester.

    Elite Battle Elephant (not including trample damage)

    Before

    40/(14+4-3) = 2.66 = 3 hits vs. +3 Arbalester

    40/(14+4-2) = 2.5 = 3 hits vs. +2 Arbalester

    After

    40/(14+4-3+5) = 2.0 = 2 hits vs. +3 Arbalester

    40/(14+4-2+5) = 1.9 = 2 hits vs. +2 Arbalester

    Totaling +33% TTK for both +3 and +2 Arbalester.

    Final results in theory: TG pocket Burmese Cavalier are having a slower power fall off in Imperial Age, while having a faster growing power spike for a transition to Elite Battle Elephant from Cavalier. 1v1 Arambai/Light Cavalry comps get a much needed boost vs. foot archers. As for trash wars:

    Hussar vs. Elite Skirmisher

    Before

    35/(7+4-3) = 4.38 = 5 hits vs. +3 Elite Skirmisher

    35/(7+4-2) = 3.88 = 4 hits vs. +2 Elite Skirmisher

    After

    35/(7+4-3+5) = 2.69 = 3 hits vs. +3 Elite Skirmisher

    35/(7+4-2+5) = 2.5 = 3 hits vs. +2 Elite Skirmisher

    Totaling +40% TTK vs. +3 Elite Skirmisher and +20% TTK vs. +2 Elite Skirmisher.

    I don't feel up to calculating matchups vs. Cavalry Archers, or archers with bonus armor/HP.

    submitted by /u/Sticky_Ice_Cream
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    Anything capture age like for microsoft?

    Posted: 10 Nov 2021 08:05 AM PST

    I bought age2 DE from microsoft and I don't think capture age is compatible with it. Any other software similar to it which is compatible with Microsoft?

    submitted by /u/UserName2599
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    Is Ranked Dead?

    Posted: 10 Nov 2021 07:51 AM PST

    How long have wait times gotten since AOE4 came out? I fired up Steam after something like a couple months and been waiting 20 minutes now. Never used to take more than 5 (~700 ELO here).

    submitted by /u/Ronuja
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    Have ladder players gotten better?

    Posted: 09 Nov 2021 11:42 AM PST

    It seems like since AOE4 came out I've had a terrible losing streak. I was pretty steady at around 1100 and now I've rapidly dropped to 1kand am struggling against most 1k players, which didn't seem to be the case before. My friend has had the same thing happen and he theorized that it's because the more casual players are now playing aoe4. I've also changed up my hotkeys and Zoom setting so maybe that is throwing me off, but I can't tell. Is there a shift in the elo distribution or is it just me?

    submitted by /u/Historicmetal
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    Issue to connect to servers/servers non existent??

    Posted: 10 Nov 2021 06:33 AM PST

    How to play multiplayer games effectively?

    Posted: 09 Nov 2021 08:17 PM PST

    So i am a noob here, which find multiplayer games way difficult. (Not even ranked one).

    For starting I usually play with Franks or Indians.

    My strategy is to first make 22 vilagers, and exclusively assign them for food and wood. Firstly my villagers go for sheep, then 1-2 boars, rest go for bushes, and simultaneously, slowly I put food villagers to farms. This strategy makes me first to feudal age, but ironically last to castle age where I run into problems.

    I don't, where I keep going wrong. In feudal age, I make about 15 villagers, and put them to gold and some to farm and wood and wait for resources and in meantime research blacksmith upgrades. After castle age things start to go bad for me and I am at mercy of enemy, and usually rely on teammates.

    Many people have tendency to leave when they see enemy players having higher score. Is this really justifiable? Another tendency to leave is when 4v4 become 4v3, 4v2. Can anyone really win on those circumstances, or resigning is better?

    Please can anyone give good strategy so that I could play effectively? (Franks/Indians)

    submitted by /u/KSHITIJ__KUMAR
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